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I liked Erik Lamela before it was cool

DeanoAustin said:
Was there as much furore about Rudiger's antics against us last season? Because that was as bad if not worse. Genuine question because I didn't see the post match coverage.

Sky were a disgrace yesterday like you say. Didn't mention us really. Didn't even show an interview with Jose. If we'd been stuffed 6-1, you can bet they'd have shown the interview with him. I also think it's wrong to have Neville and Evra on that game and Carragher on the Liverpool game. There is no chance of them being anything other than biased.
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NBC says hi
 
My theory is that people views on Lamela going down to show the referee he was hit in the face reflect their own unconscious views on masculinity.
It's not because he was "cheating". Forms of cheating (appealing for corners and throws in you know aren't yours, moving the ball forward at free kicks) are widely accepted in football.
It's because going down like that is seen by some as unmanly by some. This depends upon the culture you where brought up in usually.
But in 2020 masculinity isn't about not showing pain and Lamela reflects the new world we are in.
 
lurker of old said:
As a rule I hate it when players collapse after a minimal touch, but we have been shafted so thoroughly at Man U over the years, that it is hilarious to get one over them. Of course I would be prouder if we had beaten them with 11 on each side, but sod it. Our players have been sent off for virtually nothing, about time it was evened up. Top 4 looks well and truly on this season, but it's early days....
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Martial went down like a bag of brick for their penalty, so Lamela said watch this, I'll show you what it's all about and he collapsed as if he had been shot.
 
fernadez said:
There is no point in rules or respect if nobody keeps to the rules or the rules are not enforced objectively, which is the case.

I'm happy to play by the rules if referees and the FA enforce them indiscriminately and fairly no matter the teams standing. They don't. Champions League Final we played by the rules got a penalty given against us, then got told it shouldn't have been given and the rule would be alerted, lot of good that was to us.

As long as we're not going out to injure players, I'm looking for 3 points in every game whatever it takes. Being a victim doesn't work, you have to stand up for yourself eventually.
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Poor choice of words in last sentence.
 
glasgowspur said:
Doesn't mean you airbrush his contribution, which was considerable, out of the reports.
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Yeah it’s unfair that his antics overshadowed his performance which was very good once again. But given the nature of what happened and the outcome of it (red card) I’m not surprised his performance has got lost amongst the criticism
 
Modric THFC said:
My theory is that people views on Lamela going down to show the referee he was hit in the face reflect their own unconscious views on masculinity.
It's not because he was "cheating". Forms of cheating (appealing for corners and throws in you know aren't yours, moving the ball forward at free kicks) are widely accepted in football.
It's because going down like that is seen by some as unmanly by some. This depends upon the culture you where bought up in usually.
But in 2020 masculinity isn't about not showing pain and Lamela reflects the new world we are in.
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That’s a false equivalence imo. Bottom line is the contact Martial made shouldn’t have resulted in Lamela falling to the floor like he did. I understand why he did it, but it was contrived. I’ve seen people in real life take much stronger punches than that and stay upright. I think we’re past the point where fans of any club can be critical of other teams players cheating. It’s so ingrained in football now, every team has players that cheat.

We have a sanctimonious attitude in this country when it comes to cheating. English players have dived for decades. I do however think the extent to which English players cheat is not as great as on the continent and in South America. That’s not a slur l,that’s just how it is. I can’t think of any English player who cheats to the extent that Neymar, Suarez etc do.
 
Jurgen the German said:
That’s a false equivalence imo. Bottom line is the contact Martial made shouldn’t have resulted in Lamela falling to the floor like he did. I understand why he did it, but it was contrived. I’ve seen people in real life take much stronger punches than that and stay upright. I think we’re past the point where fans of any club can be critical of other teams players cheating. It’s so ingrained in football now, every team has players that cheat.

We have a sanctimonious attitude in this country when it comes to cheating. English players have dived for decades. I do however think the extent to which English players cheat is not as great as on the continent and in South America. That’s not a slur l,that’s just how it is. I can’t think of any English player who cheats to the extent that Neymar, Suarez etc do.
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Vardy in Leicester's title winning season 'won' at least six of their eleven penalties for them
 
Jurgen the German said:
That’s a false equivalence imo. Bottom line is the contact Martial made shouldn’t have resulted in Lamela falling to the floor like he did. I understand why he did it, but it was contrived. I’ve seen people in real life take much stronger punches than that and stay upright. I think we’re past the point where fans of any club can be critical of other teams players cheating. It’s so ingrained in football now, every team has players that cheat.

We have a sanctimonious attitude in this country when it comes to cheating. English players have dived for decades. I do however think the extent to which English players cheat is not as great as on the continent and in South America. That’s not a slur l,that’s just how it is. I can’t think of any English player who cheats to the extent that Neymar, Suarez etc do.
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Hahahaha! True colours.. How about Raheem Sterling? James Maddison? Have you seen the way PEH goes down screaming to win fouls? Let's not try make this about place of birth, alright?
 
The way I see it is that we've taken the moral high ground for years, while those in charge of the game have done nothing to prevent cheating, diving and feigning injury. It's the FA, it's UEFA and it's FIFA who have created an environment in which cheating not only goes unpunished, but give's a great advantage for those who cheat.

The only way to interpret this, is that football's governing bodies not only condone this behaviour, but want it.

In that context, I salute Lamela. It looked pathetic, it was pretty much pathetic, and sensibly speaking that was never ever a red for Martial.

But hey; it's about time we also play the game the way FA, UEFA and FIFA so obviously want us to.
 
Jurgen the German said:
That’s a false equivalence imo. Bottom line is the contact Martial made shouldn’t have resulted in Lamela falling to the floor like he did. I understand why he did it, but it was contrived. I’ve seen people in real life take much stronger punches than that and stay upright. I think we’re past the point where fans of any club can be critical of other teams players cheating. It’s so ingrained in football now, every team has players that cheat.

We have a sanctimonious attitude in this country when it comes to cheating. English players have dived for decades. I do however think the extent to which English players cheat is not as great as on the continent and in South America. That’s not a slur l,that’s just how it is. I can’t think of any English player who cheats to the extent that Neymar, Suarez etc do.
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This exactly what I'm saying. You can't help but mention the masculine idea of being able to take a punch when discussing Lamela going down.
No player in the 1970s anglo saxon culture would have done what lamela did for fear of how their masculinity would be questioned.
People growing up in other cultures have different ideas about masculinity.
Modern footballers aren't ashamed of showing they are hurt.
The old men watching who grew up in different times can't deal with it. These same old men have no problem with other forms of cheating.
 
Modric THFC said:
This exactly what I'm saying. You can't help but mention the masculine idea of being able to take a punch when discussing Lamela going down.
No player in the 1970s anglo saxon culture would have done what lamela did for fear of how their masculinity would be questioned.
People growing up in other cultures have different ideas about masculinity.
Modern footballers aren't ashamed of showing they are hurt.
The old men watching who grew up in different times can't deal with it. These same old men have no problem with other forms of cheating.
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He went down about 5 seconds after being “punched”. How do you explain that? It was clearly contrived in order to get Martial sent off. It’s wrong that players have to do that but that’s why players fall down in the box to win penalties.
 
JerusalemMan said:
Vardy in Leicester's title winning season 'won' at least six of their eleven penalties for them
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Yeah I posted before that English players have dived since forever. I’m talking about the whole package of diving, pinching, stamping, biting and all other forms of cheating that certain players are infamous for that seems to be more prevalent in other leagues/countries.
 
nayenezgani said:
Hahahaha! True colours.. How about Raheem Sterling? James Maddison? Have you seen the way PEH goes down screaming to win fouls? Let's not try make this about place of birth, alright?
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True colours? :confused: What are you on about? All players cheat to some degree but the extent to which players do is worse in other leagues and nations in my experience watching football. The world is so sensitive these days it’s probably not very PC to say it but it’s true IMO. I think the premier league is catching up though tbh.

IMO, Souness was unwise to use the language he did, but I got the gist of what he was saying and I don’t disagree.
 
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