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Ingerlund

Just like most previous years some of our players are OVERATED by a lot of English fans, however it always seems to be the manager who gets most of the blame. This time its Southgate, in previous years its been SVEN, CAPELLO. HODGSON, KEEGAN, HODDLE, TAYLOR. etc etc. The truth is that we as fans overate some players and the resuts show it on most occasions.
 
parklane1 said:
Just like most previous years some of our players are OVERATED by a lot of English fans, however it always seems to be the manager who gets most of the blame. This time its Southgate, in previous years its been SVEN, CAPELLO. HODGSON, KEEGAN, HODDLE, TAYLOR. etc etc. The truth is that we as fans overate some players and the resuts show it on most occasions.
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Very fair comment. I'm fed up seeing pictures of old England teams saying "How did this team never win a trophy" and then a bunch of people wading in with "Sven/Capello/Keegan/Hoddle were idiots". The fact is that even the "Golden Generation" had weaknesses like the goalkeeper was suspect, the squad was lacking in some areas, you had no left winger and you had no midfielder capable of dictating a game (or they were covering the left wing (Scholes) or sat on the bench (Carrick)). This squad also has weaknesses particularly in the defensive/goalkeeping area.

Actually, I've always said you boys always lack the type of midfielder who can really dictate a game and even when you have them (Hoddle, Carrick, Wheelchair), you don't trust them for some reason.

I really hope you do win the Euros but I just can't see it.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Best performing English CB in Europe? Are you sure about that Steff? Bayern finished third and had their worst league campaign in over a decade.
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I am absolutely sure, yes. Can you name me another who had as good a season in European football (bar John Stones)? He also only started playing for Bayern in January.
 
Jurgen the German said:
In the sense that people compared him to Messi and Ronaldo. He was a great player but he’s miles behind those two. Overrated doesn’t always mean bad, just not as good as some portray him to be. He only scored 20 league goals twice in his career.
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OK. I don't particularly remember anyone comparing him to either Messi or Ronaldo personally, buit that would be a tough metric to measure anyone by, especially given how different both of those players are. Rooney was, at one point, an immense, unplayable generational talent. We blew the opportunities to get the best out of him at international level. As we did with Hoddle and Gazza. Of all the great English players in the last 45 years, those are the three that could've waltzed into any international side IMO. Currently, we only have Kane who fits that description, and possibly Bellingham (IMO)...
 
Southgate has done well with what he has, until this tournament.

There were issues in the last one, but this one is on him.

He has picked an unbalanced squad, that he is now claiming isn't fit enough. He could have picked players with better fitness, and a fit LB...

International managers need to be flexible if they want to stay around for a few tournaments. Adapt to the players coming through, and not try and find a way to get them I to a system that doesn't suit them.
 
thfcsteff said:
OK. I don't particularly remember anyone comparing him to either Messi or Ronaldo personally, buit that would be a tough metric to measure anyone by, especially given how different both of those players are. Rooney was, at one point, an immense, unplayable generational talent. We blew the opportunities to get the best out of him at international level. As we did with Hoddle and Gazza. Of all the great English players in the last 45 years, those are the three that could've waltzed into any international side IMO. Currently, we only have Kane who fits that description, and possibly Bellingham (IMO)...
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He absolutely was compared to Messi and Ronaldo until about 2010 when we crashed out of the World Cup to Germany.
 
thfcsteff said:
I am absolutely sure, yes. Can you name me another who had as good a season in European football (bar John Stones)? He also only started playing for Bayern in January.
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Off the top of my head, Guehi for Palace. Konsa has impressed me this season. You really thought Dier was gonna waltz back into the England team after years of being out of favour and months of not playing?
 
thfcsteff said:
OK. I don't particularly remember anyone comparing him to either Messi or Ronaldo personally, buit that would be a tough metric to measure anyone by, especially given how different both of those players are. Rooney was, at one point, an immense, unplayable generational talent. We blew the opportunities to get the best out of him at international level. As we did with Hoddle and Gazza. Of all the great English players in the last 45 years, those are the three that could've waltzed into any international side IMO. Currently, we only have Kane who fits that description, and possibly Bellingham (IMO)...
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Over the years one of if the biggest weaknesses of the England international game has been it's refusal to use players that are generational talents in their optimal position and roles.
If used they get shoehorned into a team and then spacegoated for the rest of teams failings.
 
parklane1 said:
Just like most previous years some of our players are OVERATED by a lot of English fans, however it always seems to be the manager who gets most of the blame. This time its Southgate, in previous years its been SVEN, CAPELLO. HODGSON, KEEGAN, HODDLE, TAYLOR. etc etc. The truth is that we as fans overate some players and the resuts show it on most occasions.
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Difficult to disagree that fans overrate some of the players...

At the same time I think England have and have had good enough players to be "up there", as they have been in recent tournaments. And to play better than they have so far in this tournament.

Square pegs, square holes kind of thing has been a valid criticism of several of the managers you mentioned, including now with Southgate. A "get all the biggest stars on the pitch" approach seems to be the go to solution a bit too often imo.

Some of the more successful big teams are willing to start some big name players on the bench for the good of the system. Start players that aren't as big profiles because they fit the system, have the experience or whatever.

As others have pointed out the current setup mirrors the problems with the Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes teams. I don't see other big teams making that mistake as often. Tchouameni and Camavinga are much bigger names and "better players" than Rabiot, but Deschamps trusts Rabiot to do the job needed in the role. So a bigger name is on the bench. Hummels is a much bigger name than Tah, but Hummels is at home. Probably because he no longer fits that system.

Can definitely argue that it didn't work, but Spaletti leaving out Chiesa I see similarly. A focus on getting the system working first and foremost.
 
Baleforce said:
So qualified with a game to spare, when did England last do that?
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Probably not for a long time but that’s partly because of this new format at the Euros where it’s harder to not qualify than actually qualify. In the old format we would need to draw to be assured of qualifying. In the older format, Slovenia beating us and Denmark winning would knock us out. Still could in theory but 4 points should be enough. There’s pros and cons to this expanded format. Portugal won euro 2016 without winning a game in 90 minutes until the semis IIRC.
 
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