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Jose Mourinho - SACKED

Bishop said:
It was good enough to qualify for the top 4 because as a squad we knew how to achieve it, the manager knew how to achieve it with those players and it was one last hurrah for a collective on its last legs. Much like Fergie's last United side were able to win the league at a canter but then fell totally away with the incoming of a new manager. When you remember the context of that season 71 points in itself is not a great total and Arsenal really should have finished 4th but they bottled it in the penultimate game against Brighton. So I don't know how much weight you can put into the 2018/19 results.

We are 2 years removed from that with a different manager, having lost all 4 of the key men you mentioned and replaced with inferior players.

I do think this side had the potential to finish in the top 4 this season if it had been setup correctly but that has nothing to do with what happened in 2018/2019.
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I think we are in agreement - my point was just in response to some posters who seemed to me to be suggesting that our current squad was so fundamentally limited in ability that no manager could reasonably get them performing at top 4 level. Whereas I think with the right motivation, coaching and tactics a lot of managers could.
 
SteveAWOL said:
Yup, thank feck Aaron Ramsey got injured during the run-in that season and the Goons PL form faded as badly as ours; otherwise 2018/19 could’ve ended up having as painful a finale as 2011/12.

Can only imagine how bad Pochettino’s aura would’ve been if we’d ended up 5th behind Goons as well as losing CL final to Dippers :eek:

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Didn’t we also lose Kane and for some of the period Dele too during that run?
 
Robspur12 said:
Didn’t we also lose Kane and for some of the period Dele too during that run?
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Yup he had another ankle injury but Kane being unavailable is apparently no excuse for a poor run of form (suppose Lo Celso would be current equivalent to Dele in team) as we’ve got a world class squad.
 
elltrev said:
I think we are in agreement - my point was just in response to some posters who seemed to me to be suggesting that our current squad was so fundamentally limited in ability that no manager could reasonably get them performing at top 4 level. Whereas I think with the right motivation, coaching and tactics a lot of managers could.
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The squad we have are good enough to get top four, but only if played in a certain formation/tactically.
The squad that got us top 4 and CL final played a certain way, this squad is still capable of playing in a similar way.
I say similar because two of the most important players, Eriksen and dembele, are gone, and tbh their skill set was so unique we were never going to be able to replace them.
Hence the painful rebuild.
We have went from being a pressing front foot attack team to a sit back, defend and counter team.
Two totally different ways that require two totally different teams.
If Jose thought he could come in and change that he's not the manager we all think he is.
 
[QUOTE="elltrev said:
I think we are in agreement - my point was just in response to some posters who seemed to me to be suggesting that our current squad was so fundamentally limited in ability that no manager could reasonably get them performing at top 4 level. Whereas I think with the right motivation, coaching and tactics a lot of managers could.
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The thing we really miss is some guile, and if you want to talk about that squad from the Poch era then the player is Eriksen. Why do you think Mourinho wanted to keep him as can be seen on the Amazon documentary?

Who are our creative players meant to be? Son, Lamela, NDombele, Moura,Bergwijn? They are all dribblers. Why do you think Mourinhos primary tactic is Kane dropping deep passing it to Son? Because Kane and NDombele(the only other one feeding the two forwards)are the only ones with any sort of clever play,all our other attackers are head down dribblers. Having Eriksen setting the tempo from deep made a massive difference. That needs addressing. Hopefully getting Dele back involved will help, albeit a different type of player to Eriksen....
 
SteveAWOL said:
Yup he had another ankle injury but Kane being unavailable is apparently no excuse for a poor run of form (suppose Lo Celso would be current equivalent to Dele in team) as we’ve got a world class squad.
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But the poor run we are currently in started while Kane was still playing.
 
harr1984 said:
The thing we really miss is some guile, and if you want to talk about that squad from the Poch era then the player is Eriksen. Why do you think Mourinho wanted to keep him as can be seen on the Amazon documentary?

Who are our creative players meant to be? Son, Lamela, NDombele, Moura,Bergwijn? They are all dribblers. Why do you think Mourinhos primary tactic is Kane dropping deep passing it to Son? Because Kane and NDombele(the only other one feeding the two forwards)are the only ones with any sort of clever play,all our other attackers are head down dribblers. Having Eriksen setting the tempo from deep made a massive difference. That needs addressing. Hopefully getting Dele back involved will help, albeit a different type of player to Eriksen....
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The annoying thing is we needed more guile during the Poch era which is what I believe Ndombele and Lo Celso were brought in to do from deep. But we've lost the guile up top and foolish Jose doesn't even play the passing CMs we do now posses as CMs instead trying to play them as AMCs and RWF!

It's bloody infuriating and baffling. [emoji30]
 
harr1984 said:
The thing we really miss is some guile, and if you want to talk about that squad from the Poch era then the player is Eriksen. Why do you think Mourinho wanted to keep him as can be seen on the Amazon documentary?

Who are our creative players meant to be? Son, Lamela, NDombele, Moura,Bergwijn? They are all dribblers. Why do you think Mourinhos primary tactic is Kane dropping deep passing it to Son? Because Kane and NDombele(the only other one feeding the two forwards)are the only ones with any sort of clever play,all our other attackers are head down dribblers. Having Eriksen setting the tempo from deep made a massive difference. That needs addressing. Hopefully getting Dele back involved will help, albeit a different type of player to Eriksen....
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I agree we’re missing some guile after losing Eriksen and not replacing him with a similar player. Also agree that Dele is the best we have at that, despite it not being his main strength. That’s why I’m frustrated with him being completely sidelined. And though none of us can be sure because we can’t see what happens behind the scenes, my best judgement is that Jose hasn’t done a very effective job of managing Alli and so has been wasting an asset in a huge area of need.
 
elltrev said:
I agree we’re missing some guile after losing Eriksen and not replacing him with a similar player. Also agree that Dele is the best we have at that, despite it not being his main strength. That’s why I’m frustrated with him being completely sidelined. And though none of us can be sure because we can’t see what happens behind the scenes, my best judgement is that Jose hasn’t done a very effective job of managing Alli and so has been wasting an asset in a huge area of need.
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I don't think Eriksen is directly replaceable, hence the painful rebuild.
We needed another system and a chance to learn it.
By that time it was possible that Jan and Toby would be on the way down/out, so more pain as we replaced them and bedded the new boys in.
Poch worked with what he had and built a system around two pretty unique players, Eriksen and dembele.
Them leaving within months of each other was always going to hurt.
 
harr1984 said:
The thing we really miss is some guile, and if you want to talk about that squad from the Poch era then the player is Eriksen. Why do you think Mourinho wanted to keep him as can be seen on the Amazon documentary?

Who are our creative players meant to be? Son, Lamela, NDombele, Moura,Bergwijn? They are all dribblers. Why do you think Mourinhos primary tactic is Kane dropping deep passing it to Son? Because Kane and NDombele(the only other one feeding the two forwards)are the only ones with any sort of clever play,all our other attackers are head down dribblers. Having Eriksen setting the tempo from deep made a massive difference. That needs addressing. Hopefully getting Dele back involved will help, albeit a different type of player to Eriksen....
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One of the problems though is that Jose is avoiding playing Dele for whatever reason.
 
SteveAWOL said:
As did that in 2018/19... we lost 4 of the 6 PL matches Kane started before his ankle injury kept him out until CL final...

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We were winning in the Champions League though and lacked squad depth then, for example, Dele a crucial player was injured and Eriksen started losing form. I think part of the problem with Jose is the expectation is greater because on paper it looks like we have a better squad than Poch did in his final season when we signed no one in either the summer or January.
 
Yiddo said:
I have given him alot of stick recently and most of that was emotions running high. Having thought about it we could get pep in and still play brick as i feel this is more on the players than Mourinho. We really need a shake up and i feel giving Mourinho another transfer window to sort it out may be the best way. Jose is not instructing the players to go out and give away the ball at every attempt and is not telling them to play brick passes. This is alot deeper than just the manager.
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Same I think it's both - players and managers need a reset and hopefully we'll have fans back next year which will change things up. It's clear there's gaps in the squad and Jose knows this - can't be sure he'll get the right players in but hopefully he'll fill the gaps.

I remember when he was a pundit for sky some of the analysis he gave was incredibly detailed and descriptive that I almost refuse to believe he's not able to see what we can.
 
P.D. said:
Same I think it's both - players and managers need a reset and hopefully we'll have fans back next year which will change things up. It's clear there's gaps in the squad and Jose knows this - can't be sure he'll get the right players in but hopefully he'll fill the gaps.

I remember when he was a pundit for sky some of the analysis he gave was incredibly detailed and descriptive that I almost refuse to believe he's not able to see what we can.
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Not installing any sort of system is inexcusable I'm afraid. We're utterly devoid of any shape or way of playing. You dont need world-beaters for that
 
Robspur12 said:
We were winning in the Champions League though and lacked squad depth then, for example, Dele a crucial player was injured and Eriksen started losing form. I think part of the problem with Jose is the expectation is greater because on paper it looks like we have a better squad than Poch did in his final season when we signed no one in either the summer or January.
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We actually set a record that season for being ahead in games in the CL the least amount of time
Don’t forget we don’t want city... it was way goals
And Ajax... last minute winner
 
Robspur12 said:
One of the problems though is that Jose is avoiding playing Dele for whatever reason.
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Injury
Rumours of an issue with sleeping pills
He hasn’t seen what he has liked when he has started
I mean there are reasons
Doesn’t mean you have to agree with them of course
I’d prefer him to get more games for sure when he is fit (so we are a good dele)
 
Yiddo said:
I have given him alot of stick recently and most of that was emotions running high. Having thought about it we could get pep in and still play brick as i feel this is more on the players than Mourinho. We really need a shake up and i feel giving Mourinho another transfer window to sort it out may be the best way. Jose is not instructing the players to go out and give away the ball at every attempt and is not telling them to play brick passes. This is alot deeper than just the manager.
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Could not agree more, sadly a lot of fans do not see it as clearly as that.
 
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