Jose Mourinho - SACKED

[Bedfordspurs]

I still maintain that first 44 mins against Bayern was some of the best CL football we played. Better finishing and luck would've seen us three goals to the good at the half.

It was brilliant
Against the champions that season too
But the way we crumbled was shocking
Son should have had a hat trick
And Tanguy killed them
Chances missed though

 

[Bishop]

For once I think all that was tried but to no avail. We were flat. Lucas should've remained central I agree, and I'd love a way to go two up top with Vinny and Kane when chasing a goal.

I personally would've had Aurier on at HT.

Aurier on at half time seemed a no Braintree, not sure why he didn't go for it. [emoji848]

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Aurier on at half time seemed a no Braintree, not sure why he didn't go for it. [emoji848]

Maybe he expected the team to attack them and be less passive like he said he expected in the first half

 

[90291Spur]

I still maintain that first 44 mins against Bayern was some of the best CL football we played. Better finishing and luck would've seen us three goals to the good at the half.

And typical us that they scored with pretty much every shot!

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I'd quite like it if Ndombele is given Thursday off and can rest at home - he looked knackered at the weekend - but given PEH is suspended, I'm not sure that Jose will take that chance. Hopefully GLC will be back so he, Winks and Sissoko can get the job done...but I think Jose will want the insurance policy unforunately

I'm not saying he didn't look knackered but he didn't play against Palace and only 70 mins v Zagreb.

 

[Benny_Lad]

I don’t think we under estimate him now
The guys huge for us
But he did end up covering the over exposed right hand side which meant Tanguy was left in his own too
It was a mess TBH

I just watched Ali Golds YouTube vid. He summed up really well what went wrong on Sunday. When we played them away, Aurier had Bergwijn in front working his socks off and Sissoko inside providing the usual cover. This time Jose went with Doherty who had Bale in front and Tanguy on the left. It was so blatantly obvious how easy it was for them to get in there that it’s just weird that it took 2 goals for Jose to change it up.

Jose was given a ‘pass’ on his selection error by going 1 up and being able to change it after half hour or even at 1-1 at half time. He neglected both and we paid the price.

It’s not all Jose’s fault. Gold said he could hear Jose and Joao shouting to press and push up over and over and the players just didn’t do it. Pretty worrying. When you look at the 2 front 4s there’s just no excuse for us not going at them.

 

[Finney Is Back]

The 10 minutes to go coincided with them defending a lead and making some subs
Arteta said as much himself
But hey why play the same team that attacked the week before and ask them to play just like a Spurs team that lined up differently
I personally don’t believe he would pick that line up to play the way you described
I also think that yet again we have another player saying the okayed didn’t work to the plan but clearly their either all in message or their not...
arsenal pinned us back from the first kick
That’s clear
Beyond that it’s speculation
Hence why I would revert back to what a player says who was there and played, knowing it’s a reflection on them
I believe now that Harry has done it, Hugo has, Moussa has and now Toby.
It’s odd but it’s senior players so maybe they are towing the party line...

The week before we played a team who let us have the ball and dropped into a mid to low block just like we did against Arsenal....

 

[Finney Is Back]

I don’t think we under estimate him now
The guys huge for us
But he did end up covering the over exposed right hand side which meant Tanguy was left in his own too
It was a mess TBH

Poor tactics from Jose then?

 

[braineclipse]

Aurier on at half time seemed a no Braintree, not sure why he didn't go for it. [emoji848]

We had used one sub with the Son injury

Everyone knows Bale has to be subbed at some point, even if he was playing well. He wasn't playing well even, definitely had to come off at some point.

Using one sub to bring on Aurier would leave us with no more subs to make. That means leaving Ndombele on for the full game despite him not playing well and looking tired. That means we would be one injury away from playing with ten men with a struggling Ndombele on the pitch.

I don't think it was a realistic option.

 

[braineclipse]

Actually pressing cannot happen with a low or medium block. In those formations the opposition will always have an easy ball backwards. Pressing doesn’t just mean putting pressure on the opponent who has the ball. It is instead about giving the opponent no passing option at all, or more typically ensuring that they funnel the ball to a specific position (typically either deep and wide, or central at the base of the midfield and then be ready to instantly close that player down while also blocking all of his passing lanes so that you turnover the ball and are then only one pass away from a potential one on one with their keeper, with the opposition still in their ‘we have the ball’ mode so seeking space instead of defending their opponent. That cannot be done with a low or mid block where you are allowing the opposition to have the ball in their own half or even the first third of our half.

So when Sacramento shouts "press" he means for the players to move 20-30 yards up the pitch completely altering the defensive structure?

Or could it be that the word press/pressing can be used in more than one way including ways that don't mean a high pressing system?

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Poor tactics from Jose then?

Tactics or work rate

if bale works harder and covers his side the problem isn’t there

 

[billyiddo]

Tactics or work rate

if bale works harder and covers his side the problem isn’t there

You know whalt you're getting with Bale and it's not work rate off the ball

 

[Bedfordspurs]

You know whalt you're getting with Bale and it's not work rate off the ball

Yes I agree
So why would you set up the team to play low block?
You wouldn’t would you
But you would could set the team up to play the game they have played previously with bale playing but for some reason the panthers just don’t get going (it was Toby said after the game)
Low block or not... the lack of effort all round us why we lost the game. The lack of pressure and aggression from our players was appaling

 

[billyiddo]

Yes I agree
So why would you set up the team to play low block?
You wouldn’t would you
But you would could set the team up to play the game they have played previously with bale playing but for some reason the panthers just don’t get going (it was Toby said after the game)
Low block or not... the lack of effort all round us why we lost the game. The lack of pressure and aggression from our players was appaling

never said that we were set up to play a low block tbh just that we set up to sit off them.

personally i thought we looked like a team that didn't know what they were supposed to be doing

 

[Bedfordspurs]

never said that we were set up to play a low block tbh just that we set up to sit off them.

personally i thought we looked like a team that didn't know what they were supposed to be doing

Yeah we did
We looked lost
Like rabbits in the head lights
And as I say, the inexcusable thing was a lack of effort
If you ain’t got a clue what to do, do something.

 

[billyiddo]

Yeah we did
We looked lost
Like rabbits in the head lights
And as I say, the inexcusable thing was a lack of effort
If you ain’t got a clue what to do, do something.

the whole thing was inexcusable from top to bottom - and like i said previously the manager has little in the bank against good teams to suggest that his side of things was done correctly so he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt. Start picking up wins v teams in the top half and then we can see there's a plan that works, atm we just seem to get a load of excuses any time we play a good side.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

the whole thing was inexcusable from top to bottom - and like i said previously the manager has little in the bank against good teams to suggest that his side of things was done correctly so he doesn't get the benefit of the doubt. Start picking up wins v teams in the top half and then we can see there's a plan that works, atm we just seem to get a load of excuses any time we play a good side.

Yep
But there cannot be an excuse for a lack of effort

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Yes I agree
So why would you set up the team to play low block?
You wouldn’t would you
But you would could set the team up to play the game they have played previously with bale playing but for some reason the panthers just don’t get going (it was Toby said after the game)
Low block or not... the lack of effort all round us why we lost the game. The lack of pressure and aggression from our players was appaling

never said that we were set up to play a low block tbh just that we set up to sit off them.

personally i thought we looked like a team that didn't know what they were supposed to be doing

Yeah we did
We looked lost
Like rabbits in the head lights
And as I say, the inexcusable thing was a lack of effort
If you ain’t got a clue what to do, do something.

All teams have a plan/tactics and are basically trying to execute that approach on to the opposition.

And if they succeed it can make you look like you're having a horrible game (as in reality, you are). Arsenal did exactly that on Sunday. Defensively we looked at minimum, flustered, and at worst, all hands to the pump. We were so busy dealing with their approach it gave us little room for our own.

That's the worry, better teams with better players and coaches we struggle against. The worst thing a team can do is give us respect, they should go for us.

The other worry is the players on the field, but probably more importantly, the manager, appear to not know how to rectify it.

Its over critical of the players to say they're lazy. There was no sign of laziness against Palace or Zagreb so I'm not sure why they would take the field with that mindset (especially considering the enormity of the game).

I think we can go round in circles (and we are) considering whether it's the players or manager at fault but I think we are just shown up by better teams. That's not to say they 'should' be better, individually some might not be, but collectively they are just smarter. So my conclusion is the tactics, system, approach falls at the managers door.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

All teams have a plan/tactics and are basically trying to execute that approach on to the opposition.

And if they succeed it can make you look like you're having a horrible game (as in reality, you are). Arsenal did exactly that on Sunday. Defensively we looked at minimum, flustered, and at worst, all hands to the pump. We were so busy dealing with their approach it gave us little room for our own.

That's the worry, better teams with better players and coaches we struggle against. The worst thing a team can do is give us respect, they should go for us.

The other worry is the players on the field, but probably more importantly, the manager, appear to not know how to rectify it.

Its over critical of the players to say they're lazy. There was no sign of laziness against Palace or Zagreb so I'm not sure why they would take the field with that mindset (especially considering the enormity of the game).

I think we can go round in circles (and we are) considering whether it's the players or manager at fault but I think we are just shown up by better teams. That's not to say they 'should' be better, individually some might not be, but collectively they are just smarter. So my conclusion is the tactics, system, approach falls at the managers door.

I don’t think it’s better teams per se
I think it’s teams that press basically
Fulham made us work hard by pressing and working hard.
Arsenal do no not have better players IMO, but pressed and worked hard
We struggle against pressing because we historically just back up and back up and become timid. The most out of form pool side in years did just that too and then lost to teams that we beat
We did struggle under Poch against that some times but generally dealt with it but we have it as a problem now
I will stand by the lazy comment though as there was a lot of players who didn’t run abs work hard enough. You reference to better performances but those teams didn’t press us and we cantered through it because of that. To counter the press you need technical ability and work rate. We have the former and didn’t demonstrate it, we didn’t do the latter

 

[billyiddo]

we seemed to do ok v Leeds' press earlier in the season and they were the highest place team we have beat since November