Jose Mourinho - SACKED

[braineclipse]

I don't know what he means.... and it seems the players don't know what he means either.

You cannot play a pressing game in a mid or low block mate. You then aren't playing a pressing game... you are playing mid or low block.

That's a fine way to use those words. I'm suggesting it's maybe possible people can use different definitions for words than you do.

Sacramento not knowing what he means when using a single word, and the players that work with him day in day out not knowing either doesn't seem like the most likely explanation to me. The level of incompetence this would imply is staggering. Should be sacked immediately if true level of incompetence.

The absurdity of the situation if true... We're massively underperforming in the NLD. Our assistant is shouting words he himself doesn't understand to players that don't know what he means when he shouts it. Our once top level manager stands next to him, oblivious to the fact that his assistant doesn't know what the football term he's using means and that the players doesn't know what he means either.

 

[Bullet]

I don't know what he means.... and it seems the players don't know what he means either.

You cannot play a pressing game in a mid or low block mate. You then aren't playing a pressing game... you are playing mid or low block.

Presumably we can set up with a mid or low block and then 'press' when the opposition come into certain zones e.g. if they get too close to our defence, we press. Or if they get isolated and look like we might win the ball, we press.

But what Sacramento might have meant was "you have to actually sprint and make a tackle and win the ball, don't just jog towards them and jockey them and stand off them" which is quite hard to say succinctly in any language.

 

[Raziel]

I'm sure putting Kane alone into that team would give them at least 12-15 points extra at this stage. That would put them around us.

Our top 6 scorers across all competitions all have a conversion rate of between 21% and 36%, Brighton ranges from 8% and 19%.
A world of difference in quality and swapping forwards would see a huge jump for them and a huge drop for us.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/teams/brighton-and-hove-albion/top-scorers
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/teams/tottenham-hotspur/top-scorers

Except it doesn't work like that.

Yes, WC strikers make a difference to any team, but you have to get the ball to them, so you have to have the appropriate midfield and FBs (modern game) to support the strikers.

 

[billyiddo]

Except it doesn't work like that.

Yes, WC strikers make a difference to any team, but you have to get the ball to them, so you have to have the appropriate midfield and FBs (modern game) to support the strikers.

the discussion was about how Brighton create a lot of chances and their strikers are wasteful...

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Except it doesn't work like that.

Yes, WC strikers make a difference to any team, but you have to get the ball to them, so you have to have the appropriate midfield and FBs (modern game) to support the strikers.

You do
But of your creating the chances that would in effect mean those players are doing their jobs?

 

[DubSpur]

Except it doesn't work like that.

Yes, WC strikers make a difference to any team, but you have to get the ball to them, so you have to have the appropriate midfield and FBs (modern game) to support the strikers.

They create the chances but are wasteful. Look at the shot conversion rates in the links provided.
They've had games with 20+ shots and not scored. Creation is not an issue for Brighton, finishing is.

 

[Raziel]

They create the chances but are wasteful. Look at the shot conversion rates in the links provided.
They've had games with 20+ shots and not scored. Creation is not an issue for Brighton, finishing is.

Not sure the data is enough to make that statement

- Yes, their conversion rate is brick
- However their shots per game seem significantly less than than our top players
- There is no quality of chance measurement (xG?), shots from where? (inside/outside box)
- You would probably have to make some other kind of analysis, i.e. how any attackers do they put forward, e.g. does anyone else pull the defenders to make space for the potential goal scorer?

I can't tell if it's just a hit and hope strategy or they really make significant chances within the box that a decent striker would convert (e.g. vs. saying Kane, what difference would Vinicius make?)

 

[DubSpur]

Not sure the data is enough to make that statement

- Yes, their conversion rate is brick
- However their shots per game seem significantly less than than our top players
- There is no quality of chance measurement (xG?), shots from where? (inside/outside box)
- You would probably have to make some other kind of analysis, i.e. how any attackers do they put forward, e.g. does anyone else pull the defenders to make space for the potential goal scorer?

I can't tell if it's just a hit and hope strategy or they really make significant chances within the box that a decent striker would convert (e.g. vs. saying Kane, what difference would Vinicius make?)

Or just watch the games and see for yourself

 

[Raziel]

Or just watch the games and see for yourself

No thanks mate, have to watch enough dross with Spurs alone vs. watching bottom dwellers missing opps.

 

[billyiddo]

fwiw Brighton have the 8th highest xG in the league this season...

 

[DubSpur]

fwiw Brighton have the 8th highest xG in the league this season...

For comparison, we're 10th with much better forwards.

They're also 3rd for XGA, which shows that they are good defensively, create chances, but are rubbish at taking them as has been said previously.

 

[Raziel]

For comparison, we're 10th with much better forwards.

They're also 3rd for XGA, which shows that they are good defensively, create chances, but are rubbish at taking them as has been said previously.

So not arguing that they don't make opportunities, but (it's been discussed) better players (Kane/Son) consistently outperform xG, so assume lesser players similarly underperform xG

 

[DubSpur]

Except it doesn't work like that.

Yes, WC strikers make a difference to any team, but you have to get the ball to them, so you have to have the appropriate midfield and FBs (modern game) to support the strikers.

Not sure the data is enough to make that statement

- Yes, their conversion rate is brick
- However their shots per game seem significantly less than than our top players
- There is no quality of chance measurement (xG?), shots from where? (inside/outside box)
- You would probably have to make some other kind of analysis, i.e. how any attackers do they put forward, e.g. does anyone else pull the defenders to make space for the potential goal scorer?

I can't tell if it's just a hit and hope strategy or they really make significant chances within the box that a decent striker would convert (e.g. vs. saying Kane, what difference would Vinicius make?)

So not arguing that they don't make opportunities, but (it's been discussed) better players (Kane/Son) consistently outperform xG, so assume lesser players similarly underperform xG

Not arguing that they don't make chances? Ok, then what are you arguing? You've lost me if that isn't what your previous points have been making

 

[Diamond Lights]

seen a lot of posts talking about how Jose doesn't have his 'own' players. Read a good piece earlier that makes a mockery of this with Thomas Tuchel and Chelsea.

Now don't get me wrong, Chelsea have chucked millions into their team, but to write off players that were signed by Poch and co and not Jose is an absurd view. It's his job to get them performing, ala Tuchel and Chelsea.

 

[Raziel]

seen a lot of posts talking about how Jose doesn't have his 'own' players. Read a good piece earlier that makes a mockery of this with Thomas Tuchel and Chelsea.

Now don't get me wrong, Chelsea have chucked millions into their team, but to write off players that were signed by Poch and co and not Jose is an absurd view. It's his job to get them performing, ala Tuchel and Chelsea.

So while I agree

- Chelsea has thrown hundreds of millions at the team
- Tuchel has made a good steady start, but nothing stunning (a fair bit of draws)
- The issue Jose has is the freshness/attitude of the players, not the these are my players

That's the issue with evaluating the squad, it this squad better than the results suggest? = absolutely

Individually good? = yes, as a team? = not good enough

Lloris, Toby, Dier, Winks, Davies, Sissoko, Dele probably are on that edge of here too long, plus could be potentially upgraded.

 

[StephenH]

seen a lot of posts talking about how Jose doesn't have his 'own' players. Read a good piece earlier that makes a mockery of this with Thomas Tuchel and Chelsea.

Now don't get me wrong, Chelsea have chucked millions into their team, but to write off players that were signed by Poch and co and not Jose is an absurd view. It's his job to get them performing, ala Tuchel and Chelsea.

Good post.
Also, it looks like Tuchel has at least reenergized and refocused a good few of his players.

 

[90291Spur]

So while I agree

- Chelsea has thrown hundreds of millions at the team
- Tuchel has made a good steady start, but nothing stunning (a fair bit of draws)
- The issue Jose has is the freshness/attitude of the players, not the these are my players

That's the issue with evaluating the squad, it this squad better than the results suggest? = absolutely

Individually good? = yes, as a team? = not good enough

Lloris, Toby, Dier, Winks, Davies, Sissoko, Dele probably are on that edge of here too long, plus could be potentially upgraded.

So unbeaten in 13 with 11 clean sheets is just a ‘good, steady start’? #standards

 

[Baleforce]

So unbeaten in 13 with 11 clean sheets is just a ‘good, steady start’? #standards

With the money they spend they should be getting 20-25 wins from 13 games.

 

[Diamond Lights]

So unbeaten in 13 with 11 clean sheets is just a ‘good, steady start’? #standards

exactly this @Raziel afraid you're doing a massive disservice to the job he's done there thus far.

Again, they have a superior squad, of that there is no doubt, but he is maximising the ability from the squad hence the results.

I don't think ANYONE can say Jose is doing the same with Tottenham. Especially given our quite simply atrocious forms against teams in the Top 10.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Except its been going on longer than Jose has been here, so it falls back to the players.
I really don't see this as as simple as a managerial or player problem.
Our ambition is greater than our abilities at the moment.
Only one man can change that.

Fair point; i'd say if you are going to hire a manager that has shown himself to be a chequebook manager, then you'd better back him with the money he's used to having to perform what he has does/has done.

No point getting in Jose and pretending you still have prime Pochettino when he was getting the team to perform more than the sum of its parts. Simple lunacy. Or delusion. Or both.