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Jose Mourinho - SACKED
- Thread starter mjc23
- Start date
Mikey10
Frederic Kanoute
We're better than Brighton all over the pitch. And Palace. And Fulham. And Zagreb. And Arsenal.
Hasn't meant much at times this season.
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Baleforce
Arthur Rowe
It's not that we won't beat them, it's that we'll roll over and make it easy for them, shoot ourselves in the face with some horrific basic error in the first 2 minutes.
Bedfordspurs
Vinnie Samways
100%
The signings were right for the problems at the time
Those teams have a way of playing that makes them greater than the sum of their parts - we send our players out and tell them to figure it out themselves
Mikey10
Frederic Kanoute
Which is my point. We don't. We go into our shells. Doesn't matter who the manager is, we've shown that time and time again when it matters. Weak mentality.
Because of our tactics, I agree. Our way of playing is pathetic. I can't imagine many kids who are just getting into football thinking 'I want to support SPurs; they're exciting'. Jose is ruining our image
I'm not advocating for Poch but he got us to a CL final when we weren't the second best team on paper in Europe
Bedfordspurs
Vinnie Samways
Or even in our own league
...because we're rudderless - we have a manager that thinks all you need to do is give the players a kick up the arse and tell them to get on with it, you can't get away with that approach anymore, you need a style of play, you need a plan you need to mould the players in to a team and drill them what to do in any given circumstance - football has moved on, nowhere more so than the PL. You can't just get by because you have the best players anymore
AuroRaman
Chris Armstrong
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
A lot of fires, some of them could wait for longer term solutions, some of them definitely couldn't.
None of Ndombele, Lo Celso and Sessegnon were short term solutions. It's obviously easier to say in hindsight than before. Probably it was hoped that one or two of them would hit the ground running. That's fair, a gamble worth taking perhaps.
Even if it had worked that would have required several other players to step up massively. Aurier/Foyth, Sanchez, Winks and Sissoko. Gamble on one of them stepping up, fine, but almost all of them? And new signings from abroad to hit the ground running... You'd need very good reasons to.
With Clarke we spent around £150m in a situation with plenty of fires to be put out. In the short term no fires were put out.
Mourinho similarly had many fires to put out, with a lot less money to spend. He actually put out some short term fires. Without spending money on players aged 29+ he fixed some issues.
We still have fires to put out come the summer. A few too many for the liking of any of us however you look at it.
Another summer like 2019? Or another summer like 2020?
Regardless of the manager, and despite my fondness for a long term approach, we have to put out some fires short term or we'll suffer too much to make the long term viable.
We spent £150m! We could have signed long term solutions for some issues, and signed some short term solutions to our most pressing issues.
We had no real DM at the start of the window, and none at the end! Having spent £150m Moussa Sissoko was still starting in central midfield... How? Why? What?
Hindsight is a wonderful thing - had we done things differently who's to say the other holes in the team wouldn't have been more costly? It was a big job and we left too much to do there was always going to be some fallout or drop off - we didn't have the gonads to see it through.
Mr Gogolak
Noé Pamarot
Ironically, today's football marks the triumph of Lobanovsky's ideas in the 70s and 80s, when he was at Dynamo Kiev. The system and patterns are so important that all the successful sides play the same type of football, with minor variations. I don't think you'll ever see such varied philosophies as we had in the late 80s and 90s where people like Ferguson, Cruyff, Bilardo, Ivic, Sacchi or Beckenbauer, to name but a few, had very contrasting ideas about the way football should be played.
The similarities mean spending power and being able to find the right personality for your squad are the most important things to look out for when hiring a new manager.
I kept reading that we should find a manager who can make the team better than the some of its part. To me, that's just a cliché. Yeah, we should also find a successful manager, who'll be successful here too. How about that? But the sad truth is that I'm not sure Guardiola or Zidane would do much better. We got lucky with Pochettino: he was the right man in the right place and the players were the right ones for his system. It worked incredibly well for a couple of seasons but when things started to unravel, it all went downhill very quickly. That's modern football for you.
Maybe I'm pessimistic but I'm pretty sure we could try a hundred managers and still get it wrong every time. You can hire a guy with all the right ideas - if you're outspent by all the other PL sides, you can only hope he clicks on with the players and over-achieves, at least for some time. Ranieri is both a good example and a counter-example. He didn't play an 'orthodox' brand of football but he found the right words and he got lucky. How long did it last? A year, a year and a half maybe?
On the other hand, Marcelo Bielsa is considered by all the top managers as one of the most important football thinkers of the 21st century. And yet, I can bet you that hardly anyone will remember him in 50 years' time.
The similarities mean spending power and being able to find the right personality for your squad are the most important things to look out for when hiring a new manager.
I kept reading that we should find a manager who can make the team better than the some of its part. To me, that's just a cliché. Yeah, we should also find a successful manager, who'll be successful here too. How about that? But the sad truth is that I'm not sure Guardiola or Zidane would do much better. We got lucky with Pochettino: he was the right man in the right place and the players were the right ones for his system. It worked incredibly well for a couple of seasons but when things started to unravel, it all went downhill very quickly. That's modern football for you.
Maybe I'm pessimistic but I'm pretty sure we could try a hundred managers and still get it wrong every time. You can hire a guy with all the right ideas - if you're outspent by all the other PL sides, you can only hope he clicks on with the players and over-achieves, at least for some time. Ranieri is both a good example and a counter-example. He didn't play an 'orthodox' brand of football but he found the right words and he got lucky. How long did it last? A year, a year and a half maybe?
On the other hand, Marcelo Bielsa is considered by all the top managers as one of the most important football thinkers of the 21st century. And yet, I can bet you that hardly anyone will remember him in 50 years' time.
Bishop
Pat van den Hauwe
That's where we differ, you overrate Spurs massively and especially certain players. We overperformed and did very well but we were never the finished article. I disagree that we folded in the title runs because we were never in front, we always chasing and neither Chelsea nor Leicester dropped the points necessary for us to overtake them.
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
What other holes though? There were just the same holes. Ndombele, GLC, Sessegnon and Clarke filled no holes for Pochettino. If they had perhaps he would have gotten better performances and kept his job.
None of them filled any holes in that first half of the season. GLC was the only one doing any hole filling (on the pitch at least) at all that season, and that was only after half the season had gone and Pochettino with it.
You and i disagree on what was or what wasnt a hole that needed fixing.
We never got to see where he went with the signings because he was sacked 12 games in - with Sessegnon and GLC spending more time unavailable than available.
MKSpur
Christian Ziege
It’s interesting as there does seem to be a view that when we have been relatively successful, the manager didn’t get enough out of the great players that had, but also a manager can only do so much with the players when they are not.
What we do see is many players look better in specific systems, perhaps by minimising their decision making and giving them consistent options through coaching drills or by playing to their strengths.
Thinking about a few from Southampton to Liverpool for example and Doherty recently.
There will always be a question mark for me regarding some of our recent purchases, we have bought quite a few players across the pitch that cannot use the ball under any type of pressure or move the ball quickly in attacking moves.
What we do see is many players look better in specific systems, perhaps by minimising their decision making and giving them consistent options through coaching drills or by playing to their strengths.
Thinking about a few from Southampton to Liverpool for example and Doherty recently.
There will always be a question mark for me regarding some of our recent purchases, we have bought quite a few players across the pitch that cannot use the ball under any type of pressure or move the ball quickly in attacking moves.
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Guardiola has the advantage of being a systems manager but he only works in a money no object platform.
Zidane got a extremely talented Madrid team to get together in a few games and get over the line, but if people think Jose's sides are brick to watch, look uncoached and have player problems, Zidane ups that by about 5X
Jose was an experiment in now, this team with enough tactical nous and someone who wouldn't feel the pressure as much perhaps = didn't work.
All teams need to have a system that gets the best out of the lineup (call that more than sum of parts or not)
The goal of a football manager at Spurs should be
- Get the team playing consistently
- Play to the strengths of the team (we have a lot of attacking talent)
Win the games that you should ->That is really just a case of letting the talent determine position, the best Spurs of last decade consistently won against bottom level teams (beat the bottom 12 teams twice and you have 72 points)
But your point about a hundred managers is exactly what Levy is trying to address
- Everton, Leicester, West Ham, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, etc. can all have a few good seasons based on good manager, point in time cash injection but inevitably it will regress to norm because they don't have the income that puts them in the elite bracket (same thing Italian clubs are panicking about now)
- Spurs with the stadium has an ability to gain income higher than our current EPL potential, the role of the next manager is to keep us competitive until that cash kicks in and then we may not be Pool/United, but we will be ahead of everyone except them and the money doping clubs.