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Marcus Edwards

All the attitude stuff is a bit of red herring imo. Ultimatly the guy needs competitive games, with or without an attitude. It doesn't look like that will be with us, and we failed to loan him to a side that needed him. I would drop him down a couple of divisions and get him playing week in and out, and see what he can do.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
I personally believe these players are going to face tougher mental challenges in their careers than being the subject of hype from the youth teams. If that was really his downfall I don't think he ever stood a chance. I don't blame him because it's tough for teenagers to have the perspective of what works in the world, but it is a shame that he had the GHod-given talent, and just needed to show the right attitude.

Players have to keep working hard regardless of the hype and the pressures. They also have to keep doing the things that show they don't have an attitude problem - turning up late for training and team meetings is just such a simple thing to get right and if he wasn't doing it, he didn't stand a chance.

I don't blame our club or feel like we have lost anything. If he was going to make it, with his talent we would have done everything to get him close. And I think the integrity around our standards are too important to not maintain for one player.
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He got more exposure at a young age than any youth player i can ever remember - i don't think it's fair to say not coping with that level of hype at 16 years old means ge never stood a chance
 
SpurMeUp said:
All the attitude stuff is a bit of red herring imo. Ultimatly the guy needs competitive games, with or without an attitude. It doesn't look like that will be with us, and we failed to loan him to a side that needed him. I would drop him down a couple of divisions and get him playing week in and out, and see what he can do.
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We run a meritocracy. There are values and behaviours we encourage and reward. These are requirements of being a Spurs player.

These need to be honoured for you to progress into the team.

This is the basis on which the club is run.

When we loan a player, they represent us. They need to have earned that opportunity. By demonstrating the above.

If you dont present those values and behaviours, you dont play.

To just give games to someone not doing this would be to undo the whole thing.

I think this is a pretty fair evaluation of the club under Poch, and hence I am pretty confident in saying if there is any fault behind Edwards not getting chances - it is his fault.

Just because he is talented, it doesnt mean he gets a free pass on the hard yards we insist upon. Talent alone is not enough, that is the point in insisting upon those values and behaviours.
 
nayimfromthehalfwayline said:
We run a meritocracy. There are values and behaviours we encourage and reward. These are requirements of being a Spurs player.

These need to be honoured for you to progress into the team.

This is the basis on which the club is run.

When we loan a player, they represent us. They need to have earned that opportunity. By demonstrating the above.

If you dont present those values and behaviours, you dont play.

To just give games to someone not doing this would be to undo the whole thing.

I think this is a pretty fair evaluation of the club under Poch, and hence I am pretty confident in saying if there is any fault behind Edwards not getting chances - it is his fault.

Just because he is talented, it doesnt mean he gets a free pass on the hard yards we insist upon. Talent alone is not enough, that is the point in insisting upon those values and behaviours.
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While this is all true, it is also not mutally exclusive. Being polite, hard working....and talenless...won't get you a game either. Talent is ultimatly paramount. Merit is important for the borderline talents imo, alowing people to develop with the right attitude and committment. A talent for trianing didn't see Bentaleb succeed. I'd suggest Edwards hasn't delivered quite as much on the pitch as his hype suggests? He's not yet that talented. Regardless, the thing that he needs is games, playing for a team that need him. I think that would make all the difference.
 
By the time players get this far talent is assumed.

Of course, it varies, but to reach these stages in the academy/borderline 1st team squad everybody is talented.

It is then those core values that separate those who realise their potential and those who dont.

I reiterate - talent alone does not earn you games.
 
SpurMeUp said:
But is there a bigger signifier than talent? It may not be enough in and of itself, but it is by far the most important variable I'd say.
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The standards and culture that we have now built at the club are one of the reasons we can compete against more monied teams. Everyone needs to adhere to those standards, as the club is way more important than one player, no matter how well he can dribble. If we started letting players through just because of what they can do with the ball at their feet, we would suffer in the long term.
 
billyiddo said:
He got more exposure at a young age than any youth player i can ever remember - i don't think it's fair to say not coping with that level of hype at 16 years old means ge never stood a chance
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I just don’t really buy it. Hype among Spurs fans maybe but I don’t think fans of any other club still know who he is really.

I get it, he was young, and as @nayimfromthehalfwayline says, because of his talent this may be the first significant challenge he’s had to face. But it’s been 2 or 3 years now of being hyped, of Poch trying to see the right attitude, and seemingly things have gotten worse, not better.

Lebron James was offered millions of dollars before he left high school. National TV stations would offer his high school games on a PPV basis. They had to play at the closest college court to them rather than their own high school to accommodate the demand for tickets from fans and NBA scouts. He was spoken about as the best prospect in basketball from a young age, and now he’s arguably the best player of all time. In a similar way to Dele, he moved in with a family in a nicer area of Ohio because he originally lived in a run down part...not an easy upbringing etc.

Obviously Lebron is unique, but there are different scales of hype, and different scales of ability to respond to hype, and different scales of talent and potential. Edwards sits high on the talent scale but no where near the same level on the ability to respond to hype. Rooney, Joe Cole, these were players that were hyped to all heaven because of their talent, on a national basis, and still won major trophies. Aaron Lennon became the youngest ever PL player and went on to have a career that Marcus Edwards would be lucky to have.

I feel bad for Edwards because he is just a kid, but there have been plenty of other players across football and other sports with the same level - and in a lot of cases more - of hype that didn’t let it go to their heads to the extent they had attitude problems. There have also been players like Ravel Morrison and Taraabt that on a pure talent basis may have been some of the best the PL has ever seen. But they didn’t make it because their heads were never right, no matter how close they got to almost improving.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
I feel bad for Edwards because he is just a kid, but there have been plenty of other players across football and other sports with the same level - and in a lot of cases more - of hype that didn’t let it go to their heads to the extent they had attitude problems. There have also been players like Ravel Morrison and Taraabt that on a pure talent basis may have been some of the best the PL has ever seen. But they didn’t make it because their heads were never right, no matter how close they got to almost improving.
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This is spot on, having worked for most of my life with academy players there are many who because of their attitude ( off the pitch) have failed to reach the level that their ability ( as a player) deserved. Its nothing new and it happens at all clubs.

What some folks fail to relise is that these kids ( and they are kids) are feted from a early age and given praise by all partys they ( or some of them) develop the wrong attitudes and fail to accept that they have to listen and learn to those who are there to help them progress.

There are so many who end up not fullfilling the potential they obviously have and fade away from the game( or at least fail to obtain the level they should). From what i have been told ( by people in that club who dealt with him on a daily basis)he failed to accept at Norwich that he was there to learn and be helped and from day one showed the wrong attitude.

I take no pleasure in seeing a young kid with the ability to go to the top fall by the wayside and i know that most ( if not all) academy coaches would feel the same, but it happens and only Edwards can do anything about that i hope for his own sake he does so.
 
Reading elsewhere that Leverkusen are interested in him. Probably a good move for the lad.

Will always be gutted that we never got to see him progress at our club for one reason or another.
 
I really liked the look of Brandt at the WC. One of the few positives for Germany. Bailey for me is the more exciting player, though I've no idea what Poch wants.
 
Cochise said:
I really liked the look of Brandt at the WC. One of the few positives for Germany. Bailey for me is the more exciting player, though I've no idea what Poch wants.
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Brandt is a brilliant player and will get better

Would love him to join us
 
Poch isn't the forgiving type. I know he has been quoted as telling the players that they all have a clean slate, but if that were true this lad would surely be getting a shot.
 
Cochise said:
Poch isn't the forgiving type. I know he has been quoted as telling the players that they all have a clean slate, but if that were true this lad would surely be getting a shot.
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We’ve had 1 game so far this season, absolutely no way in the world he could or should have been in that squad. A couple more weeks in the U23’s with these performances (if the reports are accurate), then he could be knocking on the door of the squad, but Poch is 100% correct not to be picking him yet.
 
Gazza Dazzla said:
We’ve had 1 game so far this season, absolutely no way in the world he could or should have been in that squad. A couple more weeks in the U23’s with these performances (if the reports are accurate), then he could be knocking on the door of the squad, but Poch is 400% correct not to be picking him yet.
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The fact that he wasn't on the pre season tour says it all, even George Marsh was there ... Marcus Edwards won't get the chance with Pochettino.
He clearly doesn't have the attitude and professionalism Poch demand. But with us chasing Grealish an entire summer, it's worth mentioning that Grealish would never have made it under Poch neither if being his player at younger age.
Grealish also had serious attitude issues, repeated late nights out, even being pictured passed out drunk on the streets of Tenerife. He had to be told to grow up by his manager, and says he found a role model in John Terry which turned his career around and gave him that half a season he's had of solid performance so far in his career. We might miss out on one hell of a players due to Pochettino being so unforgiving and impatient - could be many others as well.
 
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