ricky2tricky4city
Steffen Freund
I'm sure £85 m for CE and TA was predicted as likely...so now that's not happening it's gonna have an affect.
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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked
- Thread starter DubaiSpur
- Start date
ricky2tricky4city
Steffen Freund
I don't mind Wenger... obviously a brilliant manager....it was just when he lost...he'd turn into a right pr.ick
Same facts, slightly different conclusion.
- Eriksen has a career path, but lets for arguments sake say we got a manager that convinced him he would win something in next 12 months, he might stay?
- Toby, Sissoko, Lamela are all squad options for me, don't have to shift
- Wanyama is done, Rose has always (more than Eriksen) wanted out.
The point of getting to top 4 and finishing stadium was to get us in a position to pay top 4 wages (best earners now are supposedly at 200K mark, 2X what is was 18 months ago), the fact that we got to agreement bar marketing rights for Dybala would also say we are willing to lift not only wages but purchase prices as well.
Poch had us overachieving when we were 2nd/3rd and pushing the title winners, not in last 10 months where our form has been horrendous and we only got top 4 because our competition had a goal of who could fudge up more. Truth is he seemingly got more out of an inexperienced squad with less developed players than a squad with a prime Kane, Son, Lucas, Lamela, Dele, Eriksen (which may just be the problem). The decision not to bring in players and a RB was Poch, nobody else, so if it bit him in the ass, he needs to own that.
My feeling on this is even for people who want to back Poch, the opinion is we would have to write off this season, something I don't like and can't see the club buying into either.
ricky2tricky4city
Steffen Freund
What on earth are you on about, can you please tell me a club that hasnt had to write off a season? Sure when some have a poor season they just get rid of the manager but it all depends on the circumstances. As has been shown above we have the 16th oldest team in the league, its clear we need to clearout. Why cant we have a season written off to rebuild, you have to take a step back to go forwards sometimes. Chelsea, Arsenal, Man U, Liverpool have all been outside the top 4, there was always going to be a time when it happened to us and considering how ahead of schedule Poch has got us a year not having CL isnt going to massively affect us - we are way ahead of target and Levy and Poch both appear to think a lot more long term than many fans.....
ricky2tricky4city
Steffen Freund
And perhaps that's why he's implemented formation and style change as he knows himself the team aren't capable of playing the old way. It's just not gone/going very wellThere are couple of articles about our lack of press in the media this morning.
https://www.skysports.com/football/...tottenham-an-ageing-team-that-is-not-pressing
Not a Mauricio Pochettino team? On the face of it, it's an absurd observation. How could it not be? All but one of the Tottenham players who started the 3-0 defeat to Brighton have been at the club for more than three years. Half of those have been there for more than six years. That continuity has been integral to their success. Now it is a problem.
It was the fourth time since September that Pochettino has named a Tottenham team with an average age of over 28 years old. Having had the youngest starting line-up in the Premier League in each of his first three seasons, Spurs now possess the fourth oldest in the competition. It is more than a quirk. It's a fundamental issue facing this manager.
Pochettino loves working with young players. They are coachable. Willing to learn. Even when an older player is a model professional with good habits, he is instinctively sceptical. For example, some years ago he was left bemused by another Premier League club opting to bring in a highly respected ageing midfielder as he felt the player's legs had gone.
That move actually worked out but it's a revealing insight because, more than anything else, the reason why Pochettino loves working with young players is due to their superior energy levels. His idea of football requires his team to win the ball back quickly. A Pochettino team at its best is a nightmare to play against. Endless pressing. Perpetual motion.
From his time at Southampton, where he soon won over the squad thanks to the clarity of his commitment to a high-pressing game, to the transformation he instituted in Tottenham's style of play, this intensity has been the hallmark of any Pochettino team. It is the starting point, the platform upon which everything else is based. His philosophy.
Nobody would have recognised the team that turned up at Brighton as a Pochettino team. But the real issue is that this was not a one-off. There has been a change. Tottenham no longer press from the front. They are not winning the ball so high up the field and as a result they are not only struggling to create as many chances but they are easier to play against.
The number of pressed sequences - those where the opposition has three or fewer passes in a sequence, and the sequence ends within 40 metres of their own goal - has dropped alarmingly. The statistics show what even the naked eye can spot - Tottenham are winning possession of the ball in the final third far less than before and far less than their rivals.
For Pochettino, perhaps more than any other coach at the top end of the game, this matters. Ask anyone what makes Jose Mourinho a great manager and his two Champions League successes will surely form part of the answer. The same is true of Pep Guardiola, while Jurgen Klopp has now won major trophies at both Borussia Dortmund and Liverpool.
Pochettino does not have those medals but he had something else. A style of play that was unmistakeably his and one that he had demonstrated was repeatable at different clubs. It had not bought silverware to Spurs but it had maximised the potential of the playing squad and there was reason to believe that, with more money and luck, success was inevitable.
What now? Up until recently, it could be argued that older players were too set in their ways to be moulded into his modern way of playing. In time, those who grew up schooled in his approach would be a different proposition altogether, perhaps even the perfect fusion of enthusiasm and experience. Physically able to do it. Mentally ready to do it.
Tottenham's decline raises questions about the legitimacy of that logic. Some of it can be explained away by the behind the scenes issues. By players in the final year of their contracts no longer committed enough to buy into these ideas as they once had. It would be a mistake to underestimate the impact that this is having on this Spurs squad.
But it doesn't quite excuse the manager's role in this entirely.
Pochettino had pushed for an overhaul. No doubt he had recognised the urgency of the need for change. But after a long period in which it was suggested that Tottenham were a young team on the up, one still learning how to get the small details right, it is problematic to now conclude that he cannot make it work because these players are too old.
ricky2tricky4city
Steffen Freund
Plus it wouldn't take much of an upturn to clinch 4th.
SylDave
Jason Dozzell
And perhaps that's why he's implemented formation and style change as he knows himself the team aren't capable of playing the old way. It's just not gone/going very well
The team are at an age where they should be in the peak of their lives, never mind their career they are not old, not even in football terms, yet we are now supposed to believe they are too old, what I got from reading that article was simply is Poch capable of managing top players in their peak?
Plus if we rebuild then what, do it all over again when the new lot threaten to get anywhere near their peak in a two or three years.
Mate, it is never worth writing off a season when you still are very capable of saving it.
- Your view is the squad is too old and needs a refresh.
- My view is regardless of if I agree, this squad is capable of making top 4 in a season where United is out of the running, and Chelsea/Arsenal will be inconsistent.
- The issue is right now, this manager is not getting par level performances out of the squad.
The sensible approach would be change him, get someone in that even with dead cat bounce will secure top 4 this season and "if" we really need that refresh do it at summer with no real consequences.
Your comparison to Chelsea, Pool, United and Scum are not relevant because their income (due to decades of CL) allows them to buy back in if they fail, we rely on consistency more than they do.
ricky2tricky4city
Steffen Freund
Is that your latest conclusion?
StephenH
David Ginola
This
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
Doesn’t mean we don’t have plenty still in the bank
StephenH
David Ginola
Name a top team he has experience at?
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Both of which should be dealt with in training, IMHO.
Im not seeing the progression like I described before.
When Poch came in and switched to a high intensity pressing game, we saw that systems development game to game.
Ive never seen such development with the diamond. If it really is supposed to be our future, if it really is something Poch intends for us to do - I would expect to see that sort of progression.
ESPECIALLY as, over the years prior under Poch, we have proven to be an incredibly versatile side.
Bit of a red herring, that, IMO. You need only look at the bench.
The more accurate stat would be "16th oldest 11 selected by the manager". With Alli, Sanchez etc on the bench, which would very easily drag that average right down...
fernadez
Dean Austin
See although I do believe he'll turn it around, like previously stated, I don't see how what appears to be his model is anymore sustainable than other managers.
If you can only work with young players for a few years before they stop buying into your methods, are we going to have to go through this every couple of seasons? How (eventually) would we be looking to establish ourselves as a winning club without players in the prime of their careers. We had a young team that came close but had no experience of getting over the line, so we trade that in for a younger team with less experience?
If you can only work with young players for a few years before they stop buying into your methods, are we going to have to go through this every couple of seasons? How (eventually) would we be looking to establish ourselves as a winning club without players in the prime of their careers. We had a young team that came close but had no experience of getting over the line, so we trade that in for a younger team with less experience?
Are the only succesful managers ones who have managed at a top team previous then?
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
If that is the case, and Im not convinced it is, but if that is the case - does it not suggest Poch needs to develop himself and his methods as well?
Otherwise we are in a cycle of needing a new team of young players every few years, in order to play the same football we have been....
glasgowspur
Luka Modric
Thanks for answering.
As you say same facts different conclusions. At the end of the day we know little of what's going on so we could both be totally wrong.
Writing off the season at this point is premature, there's a long way to go.
Yes others are in turmoil that's helped us.
But there's another way of looking at it, they are in turmoil because the League is stronger and they haven't adapted to not being able to roll teams over. Its not a big four anymore, there is six clubs at least challenging for four places.
Arsenal, man utd, us and Chelsea are fighting for two places and looking over our shoulder at the likes of Leicester and Everton.
It's not just that that have got worse, other teams are stronger.
Last season kane, lamela and dele were out injured for good chunks of the year.
There's two things I think we can all agree on with DL is that he is an astute business man and cautious. I can't see him having budgeted for us getting CL for the last four seasons or reachingthe CL final. So I would be shocked if missing it for one season would have huge impact on us.
I agree that maybe he could have been a bit less fussy in the market.
I thought we would have had a worse season last year withe WC, injuries, stadium move, toby and rose contracts, but it looks like we've just been storing it up for this season.
glasgowspur
Luka Modric
What if the dead cat bounce is 10 games and then goes all OGS?