thfcsteff
George Hunt
We didn't ever beat them 4-2 under Poch.
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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked
- Thread starter DubaiSpur
- Start date
We didn't ever beat them 4-2 under Poch.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
I will answer your specific questions.
1) I don't believe Eriksen would've started today had Lamela been fit.
2) I explained my personal opinion on Ndombele before, but again, I do not think he is quite ready to start (and play) a game of this intensity and tactical importance. We will never know, but it was fine margins for much of the match until they nosed in front. He was excellent when he came on but the game had shifted to containment from Liverpool versus us pushing a bit more.
3) Rose? I have no idea other than the fact that despite his being again caught with a ball over the top, he was still in position to hit the target and possibly equalize in the 90th minute? Maybe considered a better option to keep his opposite TAA from bombing on all the time? Clearly he had his struggles.
4) I have been a massive Toby critic for well over a year now, but I have to say this was one of his better games in a long while.
The final general thought, why play them in big big games like this, is that perhaps he knows they're done and does not want to see emerging youngsters and signings still bedding in get smashed? I couldn't give you a definitive answer because I am not him. The truth of today's game is that was another of fine margins.
Still, this place has clearly become a place of two camps. You know where I sit and you know why. We shall see what happens. But remember, nothing is ever exactly as we see it...
afsoc4life
Vedran Corluka
Hmmm Benitez is interesting... Will he come though?
fudging hope not.
Legohamster
Ian Walker
He’s already said the squad isn’t what he wants, this will have an effect on the players he’s talking about - they will all know who they are.
He “bombed” them out before a ball was kicked.
Legohamster
Ian Walker
Like I said in the other posts, rotating is a luxury
- At this stage we should play our best 11, get wins and points on the board, get our confidence back.
- If we then need to buy 3 players in January because we burnt out the squad, so be it.
We are not 50 games into the season, our best team can play a few games in a row.
Truth is, the guy doesn't have a best 11 anymore, nor a best formation, nor a fudging style/system (we are so far gone from the pressing, FB forward game of 3 years ago)
indospurs
Young-Pyo Lee
I think this is our common gripe, he's more inclined to change shape and formation with players on field than bring and take off /make wholesale changes with new players coming on. Very different from Moaninho in that way, or Klopp. He brings on players for freshness and the next game, is what i am guessing
Mosquito_Coasting
Jonathan Woodgate
Respect to Steff and BoL and others for keeping the faith. You’re better men than me. I still love Poch and would love to see him turn it round but I can’t see it happening.
fernadez
Dean Austin
All he's doing is squeezing in favourites, the same way he has done historically, except now we're not playing well.
If the argument is that he was resting players today that is ludicrous.
If the argument is that he was resting players on Wednesday that is also ludicrous.
Rose should be nowhere near the team, Davies can play there, Vertonghen can play there. Eriksen the same. Players who want to leave, train yes, bench ok. Being brought in for big games never.
If we're undergoing this great rebuild and results are going to suffer, start giving constant minutes to Lucas. Why do Alli and Eriksen get to walk through games without repercussions?
Again, like Jose or not, but he would have hauled off players after 20 minutes and put on others who wanted to play.
Tactically he's never been the greatest, subs and in game changes etc but right now
If the argument is that he was resting players today that is ludicrous.
If the argument is that he was resting players on Wednesday that is also ludicrous.
Rose should be nowhere near the team, Davies can play there, Vertonghen can play there. Eriksen the same. Players who want to leave, train yes, bench ok. Being brought in for big games never.
If we're undergoing this great rebuild and results are going to suffer, start giving constant minutes to Lucas. Why do Alli and Eriksen get to walk through games without repercussions?
Again, like Jose or not, but he would have hauled off players after 20 minutes and put on others who wanted to play.
Tactically he's never been the greatest, subs and in game changes etc but right now
Mikey10
Frederic Kanoute
Mikey10
Frederic Kanoute
I think we have to be realistic. Benitez and Mourinho are both possibles, I would say. Allegri and Simeone are desirables, but probably unlikely, for different reasons.
At this stage I just want a proven winner that the players can believe in sgain.
This is the problem, the real questions
- If you are going to rotate/rest players it must be in some method to allow your best team to play in the most critical/difficult matches
So the place you need to start with is
- What is the best 11 and/or the best 11 you are building to?
Honestly don't think Poch has a clue or is being truly thoughtful on it, for me
- GK position is fine (be interesting to see after 2-3 months what we think of Gazza, as his distribution definitely adds something)
- CB's needs to be Sanchez (think he is our future option) +1 of Jan, Foyth, Toby, Dier, Davies, Tangaga (we should see more of this kid)
- FB's for me are Davies and Aurier, We could argue 2nd choices could be Foyth, Jan, Toby vs. the others
- Midfield should be set soon, Sissoko, N'dombele, Lo Celso, Lamela with Winks as option
- Attacking set should be Son, Lucas and Kane with Parrot as option (we need to figure out how to give Lucas more time.
There needs to be a plan that includes
- Getting away from dependency on Toby, Rose, Eriksen
- Getting more time out of Lucas
- Midfield model that should be built around N'dombele & Lo Celso and potentially reducing dependency on Sissoko
- We have to improve the scoring output of Kane, Son & Lucas (our goal output per game has been dropping season over season for 3 years now, down to 1.6 from 2.26)
- We need to have 2-3 young players that get leveraged vs. going back to same old, same old (Tanganga, Troy +?)
Some of the young players or new players are going to have the odd bad game, but we need to stick vs. going back to players who have either failed repeatedly or are actively trying to leave.
Additionally building a new style/system from a platform of getting the basics right (are we still a pressing side, do we still want to leverage the FBs, will the defense or creativity come from midfield?)
DeanoAustin
Jimmy McCormick
I think the last 2 games have given me something to believe in. We played in a way I didn't think we could anymore against RSB and the players followed Poch's plan yesterday and he clearly went there with a visible plan. In some games this year, it's looked to me like we didn't know what we were doing so that's an improvement. I also lost the head with his selection yesterday but I thought Rose and Toby were both very good and with how we set up, I can understand Ndombele being benched. The one big blot on Poch's copybook yesterday was keeping Eriksen on for so long when it was obvious he was getting murdered time and again.
If Poch stops the nonsensical press flimflam, he's earned a stay of execution for me and I'd give him the season.
The issue for me has always been his confused utterances and the fact I believed the players had lost faith in him. Over the last week, I've seen enough that the players still believe in him and he hasn't been spouting brick in the media.
I genuinely can see us going on a run over the next few months.
Bedfordspurs
Vinnie Samways
I agree
The players played his system yesterday and stuck with it
That was a Poch team out there (I don’t mean our normal Poch style)
We were let down by some lazy performances and also some luck... the son shot on the bar would have won us the game IMO
But the players stuck with it which they haven’t in most games
- So for me the weird part of yesterday is the players tried and Poch failed them (with his selections and bricky sub management) vs. the narrative of the last year that the players have failed him.
The part I disagree with is your point on Rose and N'dombele
- N'dombele should have come off the minute we were 4-0 up against Red Star and he should have come on at HT for the latest in the Pool game
- Rose tried, effort was there, but he was poor (17% pass completion?) was on a yellow, should have been off at HT as well
I'm very worried that you have very experienced players out there (even the young ones) and they will look at that game and say, if only the fudging manager had helped us, gave us fresh legs in a game where we were absorbing a ridiculous amount of pressure we could have got something out of it.
Not a good example, but there is a moment in the game where Poch is giving instructions to Eriksen (think a player was down and Eriksen was taking drink break), and to me it was clear Eriksen was disagreeing with the instructions/observations.whatever Poch was telling him.
DeanoAustin
Jimmy McCormick
Exactly. I'm not sure it was the right approach because I do think Liverpool are vulnerable when you attack them at pace but at least it was a plan with some logic and sense behind it. And it's very easy for me to espouse how much better a more adventurous approach would have been when my theory can't be tested. In a lot of games, RSB included, we look very weak and exposed defensively and I can see why Poch wouldn't have wanted that yesterday against the most lethal attack in the league.
On personnel, as others have said, Lamela would have loved the first 50-60 minutes yesterday. If there's anyone in our squad that's an expert in brickhousery, it's Lamela. Shame he was injured.
Not to be a dingdong .. but maybe he and N'dombele should have been off early once we were 4-0 up at Red Star and we wouldn't have had this problem.
DeanoAustin
Jimmy McCormick
Did he fail them? There's a strong argument on the substitutions but his selections, I thought, were vindicated. We lost 2-1 away to the best team in the country to a fortuitous (albeit justified) penalty. I wouldn't condemn anyone too much for that given the form we're in. I was far more angry after Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Brighton and Watford.
Was Rose's pass completion that bad? My general impression was that he played ok. I wouldn't have started him but as someone pointed out yesterday, Davies has struggled badly a couple of times at Anfield. Maybe that was Poch's thought process.
On Ndombele, at half time we are winning 1-0 and being very disciplined defensively. I'm not sure Ndombele has that side of the game in him yet. Personally, I'd have started him and I'd have brought him on but I can understand Poch not doing it.
Didn't see the Eriksen bit but that's a worry if what you saw was what you described. Boggles the mid further as to how he was left on for so long.
I'm just happy to have a manager who is making decisions that make sense again (even if I disagree with some of them) and not talking nonsense in public and a set of players who look like they are listening to him. On that basis, I think he's earned the chance to turn this around.
I disagreed with his team selection in the first place, that said, we got an early lead and made it to HT intact.
This is my second criticism, we absorbed an amazing amount of pressure (at one point we had 25% possession and were camped in our half), that was inevitably going to tire the players, fresh legs needed early.
Eriksen and Dele were not helping the midfield, or the ball retention, or easing pressure. They needed to be off at HT or at least 10 minutes into second half if nothing changed.
Rose was putting in a shift but was poor (the 17% is real), but I would have said him out for Davies or Winks out for Lucas was a toss up for third sub (for me Eriksen/Dele out for N'dombele/Lo Celso would have been first 2)
If I was a player on that field I'd be tinkled we didn't have fresh legs against a high energy side like Pool early.