Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[scaramanga]

You may want to get your memory checked old man. We've won in the league at Anfield 3 times since 1912. If 4 points was ever a minimum against those dirty bindippers, it was also the maximum we would have expected.

Also, we hadn't finished above them in decades until Harry Redknapp put us regularly above them. He was a great manager wasn't he?

He was a worthless, thieving, scumbag, intellectual peasant as you well know.

 

[DeanoAustin]

He was a worthless, thieving, scumbag, intellectual peasant as you well know.

He was a 'triffic lad. Top, top manager.

 

[billyiddo]

Out of context .. those managers can afford to take their time as the teams don't need those players to win games.

Why not talk about how quickly Klopp put VVD and Allison in the side?

Probably for the same reason we aren't talking about signings Pochettino got in the team straight away id imagine.

 

[metalgear]

Good call.

I'm calling it. Fail to win either of our next two league games and Poch is gone in the international break.

Sent from my SM-T865 using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[thfcsteff]

Out of context .. those managers can afford to take their time as the teams don't need those players to win games.

Why not talk about how quickly Klopp put VVD and Allison in the side?

VVD - a Premiership defender who had full Premiership experience for some time. Allison; a keeper of international status who (being a keeper) does not necessarily have to adjust to the pace of the game or positional details? Context? Try Pusilic at Chelski, who is only now getting a look in and will doubtless still be left out as much as he is played this season.

 

[thfcsteff]

Did I hear Kane making bland footballer speak for the cameras? No, wasnt interested.

You are right, we CAN question why going ahead would mean we dont pursue that advantage, or use that cushion to play our game, but instead mean we have an excuse to sit in deeper and deeper and invite pressure. Thats a very good question. Actually, I think its the real question.

We went to Anfield with 4 at the back, narrow, to try and cover their attacking three. Then we asked our two wingers (neither really equipped for the job) to track their fullbacks, which inevitably put them back with the defence, then we had a midfield 3 that was soley focused on stopping Liverpool playing.

I understand the nature of defending deep(er) and trying to play on the break. I would suggest this went to far, sitting too deep, and leaving us with little options on the out ball.

A few decent chances on the break (got to pump those xg numbers) would not change the fact many predicted the loss when they saw the line up, and pretty well nobody expected the win when we scored. Theres a reason for that, we were bunkered in and defending (pretty well, to be fair, save for the flanks) and that was about it.

How exactly does scoring an early goal lead to a disadvantage? By that logic we should have won the CL...

It would help this discussion if you’d listened to Kane and not written it off before hearing. He made the point clearly (it was actually a self-criticism of the team!)...

The main thing we can agree on is the overall ineptitude of the FBs, neither of whom is up to the task against the two best and most aggressive FBs in club football right now. The idea would certainly have been to push them back, but yes, they don’t have it anymore.

I believe we went with that midfield three dialed in to play. That we didn’t was down to the early goal provoking a massive response from Liverpool, our inability to keep bringing the game to them as we did in that first minute (this was the general point/complaint Kane had) and when we did get the ball, being far too conservative/wasteful with it. Eriksen was awful; we can both agree he should not be playing these days, and I think had Lamela been fit he wouldn’t have.

Again we come to details and fine margins; had Sonny scored, we win the game. Had Rose and Aurier not farted, we stand a great chance of seeing it out. I know, if my Auntie had balls, etc...

Back to your final point and “logic”. I am not employing a metric, we all saw it. Compounded by what Kane said (you’d have to read/listen to evaluate if you believe him) it stands (for me) as a fact.

 

[MKSpur]

If he can survive a 2-7 home defeat and 3-0 to Brighton then I think he’s safe for the rest of this season. Relegation fears not withstanding.

Serious relegation fears surely?

 

[lurker of old]

He was a worthless, thieving, scumbag, intellectual peasant as you well know.
And did pretty well as a manager for us. Whereas Poch is a nice guy, probably morally correct to a fault, but currently sinking fast.

 

[glorygloryeze]

It would help this discussion if you’d listened to Kane and not written it off before hearing. He made the point clearly (it was actually a self-criticism of the team!)...

The main thing we can agree on is the overall ineptitude of the FBs, neither of whom is up to the task against the two best and most aggressive FBs in club football right now. The idea would certainly have been to push them back, but yes, they don’t have it anymore.

I believe we went with that midfield three dialed in to play. That we didn’t was down to the early goal provoking a massive response from Liverpool, our inability to keep bringing the game to them as we did in that first minute (this was the general point/complaint Kane had) and when we did get the ball, being far too conservative/wasteful with it. Eriksen was awful; we can both agree he should not be playing these days, and I think had Lamela been fit he wouldn’t have.

Again we come to details and fine margins; had Sonny scored, we win the game. Had Rose and Aurier not farted, we stand a great chance of seeing it out. I know, if my Auntie had balls, etc...

Back to your final point and “logic”. I am not employing a metric, we all saw it. Compounded by what Kane said (you’d have to read/listen to evaluate if you believe him) it stands (for me) as a fact.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your overall posts, but given what we've seen for the last 6-9 months, is it really accurate to say such things as "had Sonny scored,m we win the game"?
Given how commonly we throw away ANY leads these days, let alone 2-goal ones at Arsenal, Olympiacos, Emirates Marketing Project (CL) etc?
Not a given we'd keep such a lead at the best of times, and certainly i wouldn't bank on us keeping ANY lead these days.
It was indeed a match of fine margins, but we now have a habit of putting ourselves on the wrong side of such margins, when we so often used to do the opposite before: the latest Liverpool result and performance not being anywhere near the most concerning...

 

[Robspur12]

Out of context .. those managers can afford to take their time as the teams don't need those players to win games.

Why not talk about how quickly Klopp put VVD and Allison in the side?

Hmm Wanyama was in pretty much from the get go, Janssen too albeit as a sub. Son was on the first team immediately and Ndombele has also started playing early. It's to do with the fitness of the players when we sign them more than anything and to take pressure of them especially when they are coming into a difficult situation like now.

 

[thfcsteff]

Hmm Wanyama was in pretty much from the get go, Janssen too albeit as a sub. Son was on the first team immediately and Ndombele has also started playing early. It's to do with the fitness of the players when we sign them more than anything and to take pressure of them especially when they are coming into a difficult situation like now.

Interestingly, Wanyama was also league savvy (Soton) and Janssen is a great example of someone who should've been bedded in over time. Sonny is maybe the exception and I wonder if that is because the Bundesliga is closer to the Prem than La Ligue?

 

[thfcsteff]

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with your overall posts, but given what we've seen for the last 6-9 months, is it really accurate to say such things as "had Sonny scored,m we win the game"?
Given how commonly we throw away ANY leads these days, let alone 2-goal ones at Arsenal, Olympiacos, Emirates Marketing Project (CL) etc?
Not a given we'd keep such a lead at the best of times, and certainly i wouldn't bank on us keeping ANY lead these days.
It was indeed a match of fine margins, but we now have a habit of putting ourselves on the wrong side of such margins, when we so often used to do the opposite before: the latest Liverpool result and performance not being anywhere near the most concerning...

Of course it isn't accurate or inaccurate. It's a past-tense hypothesis (probably the worst combination any support can imply in discussion hahahahahaha) but I feel it would've been the case. To your point, who knows given our FBs...

 

[Armchair Expert]

Did I hear Kane making bland footballer speak for the cameras? No, wasnt interested.

You are right, we CAN question why going ahead would mean we dont pursue that advantage, or use that cushion to play our game, but instead mean we have an excuse to sit in deeper and deeper and invite pressure. Thats a very good question. Actually, I think its the real question.

We went to Anfield with 4 at the back, narrow, to try and cover their attacking three. Then we asked our two wingers (neither really equipped for the job) to track their fullbacks, which inevitably put them back with the defence, then we had a midfield 3 that was soley focused on stopping Liverpool playing.

I understand the nature of defending deep(er) and trying to play on the break. I would suggest this went to far, sitting too deep, and leaving us with little options on the out ball.

A few decent chances on the break (got to pump those xg numbers) would not change the fact many predicted the loss when they saw the line up, and pretty well nobody expected the win when we scored. Theres a reason for that, we were bunkered in and defending (pretty well, to be fair, save for the flanks) and that was about it.

How exactly does scoring an early goal lead to a disadvantage? By that logic we should have won the CL...

Just to add to what you're saying - if you are going to go to Anfield and do that, at least put Lucas Moura on the pitch. Then you give yourself a chance. He is almost the perfect player for those scenarios. Looks like he's back on the naughty step though. And we all know what that can mean...

 

[Robspur12]

Just to add to what you're saying - if you are going to go to Anfield and do that, at least put Lucas Moura on the pitch. Then you give yourself a chance. He is almost the perfect player for those scenarios. Looks like he's back on the naughty step though. And we all know what that can mean...

A new contract? That’s what happened the last time he was allegedly on the naughty step.

 

[Moby]

True story. The wife was assembling a pile of books to donate to the local LOROS charity shop today and asked if I wanted to get rid of any.

On the pile went Poch’s “Brave New World”.

Possibly an omen. Or just a brick book. With an incredibly inappropriate title all things considered currently...

 

[scaramanga]

He was a worthless, thieving, scumbag, intellectual peasant as you well know.
And did pretty well as a manager for us. Whereas Poch is a nice guy, probably morally correct to a fault, but currently sinking fast.

He failed miserably as a manager.

For half a season he got us to par for the team he was given and then he brick the bed.

 

[thfcsteff]

He failed miserably as a manager.

For half a season he got us to par for the team he was given and then he brick the bed.

You'd best clarify you mean redkrapp. The way things are going around here, I am genuinely fearful no-one can see further back than June.

 

[Pirate55]

Out of context .. those managers can afford to take their time as the teams don't need those players to win games.

Why not talk about how quickly Klopp put VVD and Allison in the side?

Exactly. No one walks straight into the City side yet Rodri has already played 8 times!!!! As you say, VDV Allison and others went straight-in. So did Dele and Wanyama iirc.

Poch has reinvented the narrative this season. He keeps talking about “the squad” and the need to rotate “to keep all players happy”(apparently!!!)

When we achieved our maximum success under him, virtually everyone could name our first eleven which played almost every game when they were not injured. The debates in those days iirc were mainly about whether to play Son or Lamela, and who partnered Dembele in CM - Dier or Wanyama.

Oh Happy Days ( nods with due reference to The Fonz)

My best advice to Poch is to apply the KISS principle - Keep It Simple, Stupid!!! Pick your best team among those committed to the club - and stick with it.

 

[thfcsteff]

Exactly. No one walks straight into the City side yet Rodri has already played 8 times!!!! As you say, VDV Allison and others went straight-in. So did Dele and Wanyama iirc.

Poch has reinvented the narrative this season. He keeps talking about “the squad” and the need to rotate “to keep all players happy”(apparently!!!)

When we achieved our maximum success under him, virtually everyone could name our first eleven which played almost every game when they were not injured. The debates in those days iirc were mainly about whether to play Son or Lamela, and who partnered Dembele in CM - Dier or Wanyama.

Oh Happy Days ( nods with due reference to The Fonz)

My best advice to Poch is to apply the KISS principle - Keep It Simple, Stupid!!! Pick your best team among those committed to the club - and stick with it.

Rodri has played 9 times (one as sub).
Ndombele has played 8 times (four as sub).
Ndombele missed Newcash and Arse with injury and was thus a sub the following game. There have been two other games where he has not started. this "never plays him" lark is a bit of a myth when you boil it down to facts.
Your memories of Dembele are warm and fuzzy. He only started more than 25 games for us in two seasons. Most seasons, his average was 18-20, with a lot of sub appearances and a fair few injuries. He was semi-crocked and had an injury which needed careful managing. So no, the debates were not quite as straightforward.

That you use the word "stupid" towards him is, IMO, BANG out of order. How is he "stupid"? What do you know that he doesn't?

Lastly, you say he has "reinvented the narrative" this season talking about "the squad"...a few days before the Champions League Final, Poch told Uefa that when they took their pre-match team photo to mark the event, he would have the entire squad out there. He was told it was against the rules. He said he didn't give a fudge.
he has consistently said he likes a smaller squad of approx 25 players and has consistently spoken of the squad's importance during his time with us.

I get that you also might not like the bloke being in charge anymore, but the creation of these false narratives is getting pretty disturbing.

 

[Pirate55]

Rodri has played 9 times (one as sub).
Ndombele has played 8 times (four as sub).
Ndombele missed Newcash and Arse with injury and was thus a sub the following game. There have been two other games where he has not started. this "never plays him" lark is a bit of a myth when you boil it down to facts.
Your memories of Dembele are warm and fuzzy. He only started more than 25 games for us in two seasons. Most seasons, his average was 18-20, with a lot of sub appearances and a fair few injuries. He was semi-crocked and had an injury which needed careful managing. So no, the debates were not quite as straightforward.

That you use the word "stupid" towards him is, IMO, BANG out of order. How is he "stupid"? What do you know that he doesn't?

Lastly, you say he has "reinvented the narrative" this season talking about "the squad"...a few days before the Champions League Final, Poch told Uefa that when they took their pre-match team photo to mark the event, he would have the entire squad out there. He was told it was against the rules. He said he didn't give a fudge.
he has consistently said he likes a smaller squad of approx 25 players and has consistently spoken of the squad's importance during his time with us.

I get that you also might not like the bloke being in charge anymore, but the creation of these false narratives is getting pretty disturbing.

No false narrative at all. Are you contesting that in our Poch hay day we had a very settled side? We used a very small group and there was minimal rotation. We almost won the PL that way - and in fact Leicester did exactly that with virtually the same team all season! We made very few changes to our first team and there was very little rotation. In fact, we played a high intensity pressing game and everyone lauded Poch for how fit our first team was and remained throughout.

He now has a larger squad of (hopefully) similar quality players and seems to think Uber rotation is the way to keep all the squad happy. It isn’t. The secret is play well and keep your shirt. Lose firm and/or get injured and you have to fight to win your shirt back.

Poch is contradicting his first principles - and compounding his error by sticking with players who don’t want to be here long term at the expense of others who do. Madness imo