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Mourinho - What Next?

Robspur12 said:
It's one of the few times I agree with the special cnut. Much as I like Andre I really wish he would not be so open to the press. He laid himself open for Mourinho to walk all over him but actually Mourinho behaved himself for once.
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How did he lay himself open? He answered a question in a matter of fact way, and that's it. How exactly would Jose have responded to AVBs comments that would have meant he walked all over him?
 
Robspur12 said:
It's one of the few times I agree with the special cnut. Much as I like Andre I really wish he would not be so open to the press. He laid himself open for Mourinho to walk all over him but actually Mourinho behaved himself for once.
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Can be interpreted in a lot of ways.

In a way a very "Mourinho" thing to do from AVB, make the match about himself and the other manager, move the media pressure and attention away from the players and onto himself.

If AVB had laid himself open for Mourinho to walk all over him, as in a potential for Mourinho to gain an advantage that could be significant on the pitch in the actual game then there's no chance Mourinho would have "behaved himself".

In a way the pressure is on Mourinho more than on AVB here, AVB might just have highlighted that in his comment. Like I said though, so many ways to interpret what was said and the intentions behind it. I didn't think AVB said anything wrong.
 
braineclipse said:
Can be interpreted in a lot of ways.

In a way a very "Mourinho" thing to do from AVB, make the match about himself and the other manager, move the media pressure and attention away from the players and onto himself.

If AVB had laid himself open for Mourinho to walk all over him, as in a potential for Mourinho to gain an advantage that could be significant on the pitch in the actual game then there's no chance Mourinho would have "behaved himself".

In a way the pressure is on Mourinho more than on AVB here, AVB might just have highlighted that in his comment. Like I said though, so many ways to interpret what was said and the intentions behind it. I didn't think AVB said anything wrong.
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I can see that especially with Jose's reaction AVB has obviously got under his skin. I have to say though I am not keen on dirty laundry being aired in public.
 
I didn't think there was anything disrespectful in what AVB said, and it was already clear they'd fallen out, so confirming it was hardly earth-shattering. Mourinho, on the other hand, just came across as petulant, with his "I don't care what he says, I'm not here to listen to what he thinks" response. Made it sound the opposite.
 
mudshark said:
I didn't think there was anything disrespectful in what AVB said, and it was already clear they'd fallen out, so confirming it was hardly earth-shattering. Mourinho, on the other hand, just came across as petulant, with his "I don't care what he says, I'm not here to listen to what he thinks" response. Made it sound the opposite.
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I totally agree. Mourinho is trying to suggest that AVB was being childish, but in fact it was Mourinho who sounded like the sulky teenager. And it's not as if AVB was spilling his guts about it. He actually said very little and all of it in an emotionally neutral, matter-of-fact way.
 
I've been meaning to start a discussion thread on Jose Mourinho for a while now; yes it could be argued i'm just riding a bit of a wave right now, but here goes:

I believe Jose Mourinho is vastly overrated and the veneer of being a great 'coach' is starting to fall.

I believe he only stays at clubs for 2 to 3 and a half years because of his coaching methods are not enjoyable or organic and cannot hold players commitment/attentions for more then 3 years. I think his methods would be fine at a club that was annually an 'underdog' type of club that is always working against the odds.
However, when he coaches a club that expects to be favourites for trophies and had superior players that expect to be on the front foot, players eventually grow disillusioned with the negative tactics. I think the fact that the best gleams now generally let Mourinho's teams have the ball tells us that they know that unless you give his teams space to counter-attack then due to his lack of ability to coach his teams as to what to do when they have the ball means they will more often than not be ineffective against teams of similar standings.

I think we will start to see the 'unmasking' of the 'genius' that is Mourinho over the next 18 months or so.

I think players will find playing for him much less attractive than in the past; especially strikers (who know they'll often be playing in formations where they'll be expected to be running around half the pitch often isolated to hold the ball up for fellow attackers who have been doubling up as second full-backs and getting castagated when they end up not being Drogba v2).

Selling Juan Mata, the one person who can unpick a lock in that side when up against a bus, says it all about the limitations of Mourinho. Eventually people will point to his sale as the possible reason why they have choked this season; remember it's mostly been in the games against 'smaller' teams who have parked the bus and/or not given Chelski the space to counter-attack. Games where pace and power are less key than the guile that lock-pickers like Mata can bring.

I predict that When Mourinho will leave the Chelski job after another 2 seasons as a relative 'loser' and I suspect he wont have any takers at the top level anymore.

This season: The Special One in Failure (of course stated with the risk that they can out serious egg on my face if they win the PL)
 
Overrated? don't be daft.

However, he is not the same 'special' one he was in the first stint at Chelsea. This time he is way more snide and underhanded. He's got to a position where his team HAS to win, simply because he has won in the past and anything else is a slight on his reputation. If he doesn't win, it's someone else's fault.

I think you're right about his coaching methods being limited to a 2yr cycle before players burn out or just want to leave. Win as much as possible then leave and don't care about the state of the team afterwards.

Selling Mata is not about limitations of Mourinho, it's about the limitations of Mata himself in the system. Yeah, player of the year, but Mourinho needs players who will work hard in both halves of the field and not just come alive around the edge of the opposition's box. Man Utd are finding that now. Moyes struggled to find a place for him, putting him out on the left for a bit. He should be a central player but to sacrifice a forward or a holding midfielder for him is a risk. Chelsea have lots of attacking players who can play that role but Mourinho needs to control everything so Mata is expendable.

I find Jose's interviews and comments tedious. Almost as tedious as the media fawning over what a character he is. He's a cynical old bully trying to keep up with better teams by destroying games. Then insulting people or making ridiculous statements that become airbrushed from history or laughed off.
 
He said last season in one of his early press conferences if he didnt win a trophy in his 1st season he would walk, wonder if he is true to his word
 
There's been a very strange trend recently to discount the achievements of a lot of top level managers. Mourinho, Klopp, Simeone, Ancelotti etc etc, there always seems to be people now with the opinion that they're either over-rated or actually not even good managers.

His 1st ever job? He took Uniao to their highest ever league finish, 5th. They are a club now in the 3rd division.

Porto, Chelsea and Inter all enjoyed big spending power compared to most of the clubs in their leagues but as we've seen, winning the league title isn't just about money, as the procession of Chelsea, Emirates Marketing Project, Real Madrid etc managers have shown. He certainly did not have a financial advantage in the CL, which he has now won with 2 of those teams.

Real Madrid is the only job where I'd say he failed tbh. Yes he finally moved Real on from their ridiculous record of going out in the last 16 season after season, yes he finally broke the stranglehold of that ridiculous Barcelona team with an almost flawless league season. But that was the only major trophy he won there and he didn't win what they most want.

I wouldn't say that his methods end up grating/ tiring players out. His tactics were the tactics that Chelsea managers continued to revert to once their reigns became in threat or once a new manager came in as a caretaker. The players there still clearly loved him. Real are playing in a similar way still to the way he implemented. Inter is the team where I would say he went for broke, spent a huge amount of money on the now and then left knowing next season wouldn't be the same.

He's what 51? He's won 7 league titles, 2 champions leagues, 4 domestic FA cup equivalents and 2 league cups. And a UEFA cup.

There are very very few managers who guarantee trophies the way he does. How many managers are better than him?

I think he's a huge ass. I hate the way he acts. I hate the sycophantic way the British media treats him (especially with the way they subsequently treated AVB). I take great pleasure whenever one of his teams loses. I hate the football he often decides to play when it comes to the important points of the season. I think his 2nd spell at Chelsea will be less successful than the 1st.

But I think he's an exceptional manager with few peers in world football.
 
markysimmo said:
He said last season in one of his early press conferences if he didnt win a trophy in his 1st season he would walk, wonder if he is true to his word
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I thought he said I'm not the kind of manager to stick around for 3 or 4 years without winning a trophy. In that case, I don't wait for the club to tell me goodbye, I'd be the first to say I have tried my best but haven't succeeded.
 
I think that the main reason he does not stick around at clubs is because he diverts pressure and attention from his players by making sure that he is always the story. I think that after a while this become divisive.
 
I'd like to see how he gets on managing a second tier type club. Not specifically THFC but a team of a similar ilk. Ok take Porto out for a second managing Chelsea, Inter and Real to titles/trophies is great but try winning the league with that second tier club I mentioned Jose. That'd make you very special rather than being given everything on a plate.
 
Roy1983 said:
I'd like to see how he gets on managing a second tier type club. Not specifically THFC but a team of a similar ilk. Ok take Porto out for a second managing Chelsea, Inter and Real to titles/trophies is great but try winning the league with that second tier club I mentioned Jose. That'd make you very special rather than being given everything on a plate.
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I was going to cite the decline of Inter after he left as evidence his methods are only for the short term. That team was built for a purpose, after that they couldn't sustain it and never reached those heights again. Either it was too expensive to continue, too demanding (physically/mentally), or Benitez - who took over - simply couldn't inspire the same levels of intensity.
 
Danners9 said:
Overrated? don't be daft.

However, he is not the same 'special' one he was in the first stint at Chelsea. This time he is way more snide and underhanded. He's got to a position where his team HAS to win, simply because he has won in the past and anything else is a slight on his reputation. If he doesn't win, it's someone else's fault.

I think you're right about his coaching methods being limited to a 2yr cycle before players burn out or just want to leave. Win as much as possible then leave and don't care about the state of the team afterwards.

Selling Mata is not about limitations of Mourinho, it's about the limitations of Mata himself in the system. Yeah, player of the year, but Mourinho needs players who will work hard in both halves of the field and not just come alive around the edge of the opposition's box. Man Utd are finding that now. Moyes struggled to find a place for him, putting him out on the left for a bit. He should be a central player but to sacrifice a forward or a holding midfielder for him is a risk. Chelsea have lots of attacking players who can play that role but Mourinho needs to control everything so Mata is expendable.

I find Jose's interviews and comments tedious. Almost as tedious as the media fawning over what a character he is. He's a cynical old bully trying to keep up with better teams by destroying games. Then insulting people or making ridiculous statements that become airbrushed from history or laughed off.
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This post says a lot of what I wanted to say, especially the bolded paragraph. He is an excellent manager with a great record. He seems to have become a victim of his own success as now his earlier pragmatism (parking the bus or bolder attack) has given way to safety first to try and protect the reputation, just as his mix of humour and ruthless cynicism has become snide and self-serving cynicism.

I think the telling thing will Mata is the comparison with Willian and the work he puts in. Mourinho takes no passengers and expects every player to work hard, regardless of reputation and skill.

I think his spell at Real was a relative success. They went from six years (iirc) with no CL quarterfinals to three in a row. And domestically he had to deal with an exceptional Barcelona team. It's not quite what the fans, club hierarchy or Mourinho himself would have wanted, but was an marked improvement on what went before.

To his three CL semi-finals at Real, you can add three at Chelsea and the successful ones with Porto and Inter. As one Spanish paper (Marca?) has remarked he is the Semi-final One.
 
Roy1983 said:
I'd like to see how he gets on managing a second tier type club. Not specifically THFC but a team of a similar ilk. Ok take Porto out for a second managing Chelsea, Inter and Real to titles/trophies is great but try winning the league with that second tier club I mentioned Jose. That'd make you very special rather than being given everything on a plate.
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You mean like his 1st proper job in management?

Porto and inter are also 2nd tier when it comes to Europe.
 
Hootnow said:
You mean like his 1st proper job in management?

Porto and inter are also 2nd tier when it comes to Europe.
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Porto are. As I said I'd like to see him do it with a team like us or a Valencia in Spain or a Lazio in Italy.
 
Don't think Mourinho is over rated. But he is no longer the "special one" he used to be. I think most managers have learned how to counter his tactics.
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I agree with Hootnow.

Mourinho has said all along, just like he's said at previous jobs that his teams get to their best in his second season.

I have a feeling this thread wouldn't have been started had Chelsea beaten Atletico. In the end Atletico's win was convincing, but the game was really in the balance at 0-0, 1-0 and even 1-1. If Cole clears the ball before the equalizer and the teams go into the break with Chelsea leading I could easily see the game swing the other way.

Very small margins at that level, in the end Mourinho's Chelsea were beaten by a very good Atletico team. A team that looks on course to beat both Real Madrid and Barca to the Spanish title this year. A very good, massively in form, confident team. This happens to everyone all the time.

And all this talk about him getting things on a plate and thus winning. Why haven't the Chelsea managers that followed him managed to get the same results? Why isn't Ancelotti capable of beating Atletico in the league? Because even with those resources wins don't come automatically.
 
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