Mourinho - What Next?

[jts1882]

I think you make a good point overall. Chelsea just had to challenge a strong top two and then there was a big gulf back to the rest (with Liverpool inbetween). Now there is far more depth to the league.

However, the comparison of the then and now Arsenal teams seems way off. Cole and Campbell were a step above any defender they have now. Vieira was in a different league to their current midfield (he was only sold for £13m because he was getting older). And then you compare Henry and Bergkamp to Giroud and Ozil. I don't think a single current player would displace any of that XI, with only Toure (who was a totally different player to the one today) and Lauren with any serious competition.

 

[glorygloryeze]

I think you make a good point overall. Chelsea just had to challenge a strong top two and then there was a big gulf back to the rest (with Liverpool inbetween). Now there is far more depth to the league.

However, the comparison of the then and now Arsenal teams seems way off. Cole and Campbell were a step above any defender they have now. Vieira was in a different league to their current midfield (he was only sold for £13m because he was getting older). And then you compare Henry and Bergkamp to Giroud and Ozil. I don't think a single current player would displace any of that XI, with only Toure (who was a totally different player to the one today) and Lauren with any serious competition.

I agree with this. Good post

 

[glorygloryeze]

Anyone else noticed how Chelski's ceativity has effectively been ground down by Mourinho?
Last here most were drooling over the creative potency of Mata, Oscar and Hazard (at least I know I was).

Now:
Mata - sold (not pacy or physican enough)
Oscar - was now JM's officially annointed "no 10"..totally out of form..why? Tasked to do too much workhorse rrunning up and down?
Hazard - had been great before recent injury, but has admitted atht he has been given big task to provide effectuvely all their creative spark these days, wheras last year that was spread amongst others like the above.
Schurlle, Willian, Salah - Decent, but will they be better next season? Will they be as good as the 3 above were last season?

It has to be said that it looks like Rafa good more out of that midfield both offensively and defensively last season.

Mourinho had creative genius at his disposal at Real Madrid as well, and he made them not great when they had to set the possession pattern (hence why the best teams actually let them have the ball).

Am i being harsh here, or is Mourinho really better as a coach of underdogs?

 

[braineclipse]

I think you make a good point overall. Chelsea just had to challenge a strong top two and then there was a big gulf back to the rest (with Liverpool inbetween). Now there is far more depth to the league.

However, the comparison of the then and now Arsenal teams seems way off. Cole and Campbell were a step above any defender they have now. Vieira was in a different league to their current midfield (he was only sold for £13m because he was getting older). And then you compare Henry and Bergkamp to Giroud and Ozil. I don't think a single current player would displace any of that XI, with only Toure (who was a totally different player to the one today) and Lauren with any serious competition.

Does more depth in the league make it more difficult to win the league? If you're one of those 3 teams challenging for the title your title rivals also have to play those tougher other teams in the league. Doesn't make much of a difference I would say.

Agree completely about the comparison between that Arsenal side and the current one. That for me is just a non starter. They were a lot stronger back then.

 

[braineclipse]

Anyone else noticed how Chelski's ceativity has effectively been ground down by Mourinho?
Last here most were drooling over the creative potency of Mata, Oscar and Hazard (at least I know I was).

Now:
Mata - sold (not pacy or physican enough)
Oscar - was now JM's officially annointed "no 10"..totally out of form..why? Tasked to do too much workhorse rrunning up and down?
Hazard - had been great before recent injury, but has admitted atht he has been given big task to provide effectuvely all their creative spark these days, wheras last year that was spread amongst others like the above.
Schurlle, Willian, Salah - Decent, but will they be better next season? Will they be as good as the 3 above were last season?

It has to be said that it looks like Rafa good more out of that midfield both offensively and defensively last season.

Mourinho had creative genius at his disposal at Real Madrid as well, and he made them not great when they had to set the possession pattern (hence why the best teams actually let them have the ball).

Am i being harsh here, or is Mourinho really better as a coach of underdogs?

It's been a change for sure.

Mourinho clearly prefers to play on the break and is happy to concede possession against other top teams.

I'm guessing that next season they will be considerably stronger when having to dominate possession (primarily against smaller teams).

Btw, I think Oscar always worked really hard. I think it's just a young player hitting a poor patch of form. I agree that the sale of Mata was a bit strange, but as a part of the kind of team unit Mourinho wants it makes some sense. He has to find a way to replace that creativity, not strange to see that take a little bit of time.

 

[glorygloryeze]

Gotta wonder if Hazard plays this weekend....

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/may/02/jose-mourino-eden-hazard-chelsea-sacrifice-himself


Chelsea's José Mourinho: Eden Hazard does not sacrifice himself for the team
• I try to improve him all season, says Chelsea manager
• Mourinho not upset by Belgian's comments after Atlético game
José Mourinho has lamented Eden Hazard's error in Chelsea's Champions League elimination but has no qualms with the Belgian's comments following the midweek exit to Atlético Madrid. Hazard, one of Chelsea's best players for much of the season, failed to track back to allow Atlético to equalise in Wednesday's Champions League semi-final second leg and later said the Blues are set up to counterattack, not to take the initiative in games.
The comments were interpreted as a slight on Mourinho's tactics, which have been criticised of late, and coming from a player linked with Paris Saint-Germain this summer led to speculation over his future.

"I listened to the interview," said Mourinho, whose side lost 3-1 to Atlético and play Norwich in the Premier League on Sunday. "There was nothing critical in what he said. When the comments come from a player like Eden it's normal because he's not the kind of player to sacrifice himself for the team. Normally you get these kind of comments from players like him, from players that can't resolve a problem like we had in the first goal.
"Eden is the kind of player that is not so mentally ready to look back to his left-back and to leave his life for him. If you see the first goal of Atlético you completely understand where the mistake was and why we conceded that goal. The perfect team at the top level cannot make these kinds of mistakes."

Willian and André Schürrle performed selflessly on the left in Madrid and in the win at Liverpool, respectively, but Hazard's error on his return from a calf injury was costly. Adrián's equaliser eight minutes after Fernando Torres had put Chelsea in front gave Atlético a crucial away goal and Mourinho's men could not respond.
"Normally in this game if you go to half-time winning 1-0 the game is another game because Atlético has to chase the game," Mourinho added.
Hazard has been praised for his defensive duties this term, but Mourinho insists he still has work to do. "I'm not happy," Mourinho said. "I speak all season and I try to improve him all season."

 

[SteveAWOL]

Chelsea’s financial potential has been roughly the same ever since Abramovic came in (ie. they have had the ability to purchase almost anyone since 2003). Therefore, if you look at the stature of the Chelsea players in mourinho’s first two seasons, and compare them to the stature of the current Chelsea players, it’s very similar. In my opinion, Chelsea’s team from Mourinho’s first stint was a top 5 European side (as is the current one).

In contrast, despite being invincible, I would argue that Arsenal were not a top 5 European side, then or now. Arsenal were invincible because the league was a lot weaker throughout (and because they had a lot of luck too). Arsenal’s team then isn’t much different to what they have now, and what they have had inbetween in terms of stature. ...

FWIW, here's how the teams compare from a squad salary perspective... you get what you pay for :-k

 

[SteveAWOL]

@sportingintel: CHELSEA: best against the best, and worst of the best against the rest http://www.sportingintelligence.com...nd-worst-of-the-best-against-the-rest-020501/ …

Jose Mourinho celebrated last weekend’s win at Liverpool by stressing (a.k.a gloating) that Chelsea had completed Premier League doubles in the 2013-14 season over Liverpool and Emirates Marketing Project. And yes, indeed, Chelsea are well clear when it comes to their record against fellow top-seven sides compared to other top-seven sides against each other.

But while Chelsea are the best against the best, they are the worst of the best against the rest. Bottom of the pile. Sub-standard. Lacking. Not what you might call special. And arguably that has or will cost them the title this season.

The first graphic is self-explanatory but it shows Chelsea winning eight and losing only one of 12 games against fellow top-seven sides at an average of 2.25 points per game. And it shows them picking up fewer points per game against the ‘other 13′ – the ‘lesser teams’, at 2.13 points per game.

Five defeats in particular against the ‘other 13′ have cost them dear: defeats at Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Stoke, Villa, Palace and then of course at home to Sunderland. None of the other top seven have lost more than three games against the ‘other 13′.

A significant aside to Chelsea’s record in this regard in Manchester United’s. They have won just one (that’s ONE) of 12 games against fellow top-seven teams this season. And note that Arsenal are best against the rest, but not great against the best.

 

[glorygloryeze]

So it's official: this will be Jose second consecutive year without a trophy.

If Wenger wins the FA Cup :-& perhaps some Arsenal fans will put up some banners saying "Jose - The Special in Failure"...

 

[glorygloryeze]

I must say I find it interesting that he seems to be falling out with his creative players one by one...

Perhaps they are getting sick of his 'not-me-guv' schtick and being asked to run like workhorses instead of use their skills and creative abilities in a positive attacking fashion.

I also wouldn't be surprised that after seeing Higuain, Benzema, et al struggle or get blasted by Mourinho that they struggle to attract the 'star quality forward' that they think they need.

Benitez got more out of Eto'o, Higuain, Ba and Torres...:-"

 

[Neymar]

FWIW, here's how the teams compare from a squad salary perspective... you get what you pay for :-k

And that's why wenger is a genius imo. he has fully realised that players always get paid what they "deserve". theres no two ways around this. good players will demand good wages and mediocre players will demand mediocre wages. and arsenal cannot maintain a financial expenditure like chelsea. so what has wenger done?

he's decided to cut out paying the top transfer fees (as you dont neccesarily need to pay top transfer fees to get top players) and instead used whatever money they could've used in transfer fees to pay wages of players that they have impproved over time to being top players. this way they can maintain a strong team without spending as much as their rivals overall.

look at why arsenal have lost players in the past. its because arsenal couldn't afford to match other clubs in offering the top wages. look at why sol campbell went to arsenal. he was a top defender at the time, and therefore demanded top wages. arsenal may not have paid much for him, but you can bet they would have had to pay a top salary for him.

those two graphs that you have posted show basically that teams perform relative to how much their players are paid (which is a reflection of how good they are in general). i bet if there was such graph for each of mourinho's seasons, it would also show that his teams generally perform where you would expect them too given his teams resources.

 

[Neymar]

I must say I find it interesting that he seems to be falling out with his creative players one by one...

Perhaps they are getting sick of his 'not-me-guv' schtick and being asked to run like workhorses instead of use their skills and creative abilities in a positive attacking fashion.

I also wouldn't be surprised that after seeing Higuain, Benzema, et al struggle or get blasted by Mourinho that they struggle to attract the 'star quality forward' that they think they need.

Benitez got more out of Eto'o, Higuain, Ba and Torres...:-"

mourinho is not a "tactical genius" imo. he is actually just a manager that likes to set up defensively. and people correlate setting up defensively to being tactically sound. if you look at managers who set up their team to attack and express themselves, they do not receive as much credit as they should for doing so. look at the likes of wenger, pellegrini and rodgers. i'm not saying anyone is claiming these guys are tactically devoid, but fans generally think its the players who are responsible for the all attacking flair rather than the manager; who has perhaps devised a plan to give them the platform in which they can express themselves to the max.

although this is a bit of a generalisation, what mourinho has basically done with chelsea and inter milan etc, is push his midfield a few yards deeper. this means that the defenders have more players around them and is therefore harder to break them down. however, he also wants these midfielders to have the physical capacity to be able to contribute in the attacking third of the pitch. basically, he wants players who can defend and attack to a world class standard. ie. he wants the best players in the world. you don't need to be a tactical genius to win with such complete players imo.

this is why someone like mata had problems and why hazard is having problems. mata simply does not have the physical running capacity to contribute effectively in both zones. and hazard loses a lot of his attacking potential after having spent so much time defending as he becomes less lucid.

also, this is why as you have mentioned, the likes of etoo, ba, torres are struggling at the moment (moreso than ever). the midfielders are too far away from them and therefore they are lacking support. mourinho needs strikers like zlatan or drogba. strikers who can do everything. guys who can hold the ball up, run in behind, run the channels, and produce magic on their own. again, you don't need to be a tactical genius to win with zlatan.

 

[milo]

I think that Mourinho has done a good job of deflecting blame for not winning the league away from him and the team this season. In the last six weeks they have lost to Sunderland, Palace and drew with Norwich. I know that Sunderland and Palace have been on a good run of form but if Chelsea win those game, they have won the league.

There has been plenty of criticism of Liverpool for losing to Palace but Chelsea have had a far worse collapse with a more experienced squad and arguably the best manager in the league.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

They've also played 4 games against psg and athletico Madrid in that period as well, Liverpool have had the considerable luxury of just focusing on each league game.

For all Rodgers good work this season I think he's thrown it away with naive, inexperienced and arrogant performances in the last two games. Pick up a draw v Chelsea at home and the league is won, be happy with a draw and Chelsea wouldn't have known what to do with themselves. The palace game, well I don't know what to say really, his **** up started from the moment he ranted about pulis' side after the Chelsea defeat and his performance / decisions just got worse from there.

 

[glorygloryeze]

They've also played 4 games against psg and athletico Madrid in that period as well, Liverpool have had the considerable luxury of just focusing on each league game.

For all Rodgers good work this season I think he's thrown it away with naive, inexperienced and arrogant performances in the last two games. Pick up a draw v Chelsea at home and the league is won, be happy with a draw and Chelsea wouldn't have known what to do with themselves. The palace game, well I don't know what to say really, his **** up started from the moment he ranted about pulis' side after the Chelsea defeat and his performance / decisions just got worse from there.

Whatever way people can say that Liverpool threw it away, then it should be said double for Chelski. They were leading the pack in March and ballsed it up with defeats against Villa, Palace and Sunderland, plus dropped points vs the likes of West Brom and Norwich.

As Milo says Jose has done a great job of deflecting scrutiny of his and his team's bottle job this season. But like in Italy and Spain the fauning over Jose will stop; I'd say it has already with the spat he's had with Jamie Redknapp...

 

[Robspur12]

No one can feel more satisfied today than Pellegrini with finishing above the "special one" after Mourinho completely disrespected his time at Madrid.

 

[Rorschach]

Anyone think his job is at risk?

 

[milo]

Anyone think his job is at risk?

I think that he is safe for one more season

 

[Neymar]

he's safe. abramovic wouldn't want the criticisms he would face from fans and the media

 

[Jurgen the German]

Definitely not as special as he once was.

Failed at Real Madrid as far as I'm concerned. Was brought in with the remit of winning the CL, not only did he not even get past the semis, but the guy that replaced him manages it at the first attempt.

Massively failed this season, winning nothing and throwing the title away despite taking 12 points against the top two. Struggles when teams try to out Mourinho him and park buses.