Cool, thanks
Bought Pogba for record fee. Bought Ibrahimovoc and Mkhitaryan at big cost. Also bought Bailly.
Initially looked like good business, but all 3 players, save for Zlatan, ending up going backwards within 18 months.
I cant hold the fees against him. Thats Woodwards willy waving, IMHO.
Its like blaming Poch for Levy spending £70m on NDombele. Thats not on Poch, regardless of if he really wanted the player or not.
Jose asked for a spine to the team, basically.
Wanted a highly talented defender, someone considered the best MF in the world, a fantastically talented AM* and a legendary striker (on a free!)
I would say he has a good eye. And none of those players were beyond Utds spending.
*What went wrong? Seriously. Loved him at Dortmund, just hasnt performed anywhere since.
Bailly played a lot in his first season. MOTM in the community shield and PL debut, player of the month in Aug, team of the season. Making 38 appearances in his first year in all comps.
Second year he managed only 18 games, but apparently missed 121 days to injury. Not sure he is one Mourinho let down, looks like he liked him.
Ibrahimovic was a success, a very astute buy, Im sure you agree.
Pogba, I mean, what the fudge happened there? Despite being awful was still one of their better players.
First season, 30 Pl appearances, 5 goals, 4 assists. Second season, 27 pl appearances, 4 goals and 10 assists.
So despite clearly being an utter bellend and clashing with Mourinho, it seems Mourinho still got him to perform to a reasonable degree.
As I say, I dont hold the price against him.
Mkhitaryan made his contributions, when you look into it. Including a goal in the EUROPA final. 7 goals and 10 assists in the Pl across 2 seasons. Not quite the dud I thought he was, though clearly could have done more.
How true is it to say they went backwards under Jose? And - because of Jose? I think the jury is out, its much less definitive that you might think.
By the time he left United were languishing in 6th/7th. When he had joined they had finished on same points total as Emirates Marketing Project.
According to
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/man...85/plus/0?saison_id=2017&pos=&detailpos=&w_s=
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/man...81/plus/0?saison_id=2017&pos=&detailpos=&w_s=
Spend (net)
16/17 - Utd = £124m City = £161m
17/18 - Utd = £137m City = £203m
Thats a difference of £103m
And I would suggest City had a better base to start from as well when looking at the squads. Just IMO of course.
Do you really expect him to keep pace?
They won EL and League Cup in his first year so granted he won two trophies. Two trophies typically United look down on but now were lauded as some wowing and great achievement.
Ok EL got him and them out of jail.
Utd may well have looked down on it in years passed, but thats where they were (and where he found them).
For context, Spurs recent record in EUROPA
06-07 Qtr finals
07-08 Round of 16
08-09 Round of 32
11-12 Group stage
12-13 Qtr Finals
13-14 Round of 16
14-15 Round of 32
15-16 Round of 16
First time Jose was in the EUROPA since he won it with Porto, he won it. 2 for 2.
With this team:
Romero
Valencia-Smalling-Blind-Darmain
Fellaini-Herrera-Pogba
Mata-Rashford-Mkhitaryan
I mean, arent you even a little impressed?
But in CL Jose was woeful. I'm sure he didn't win a knockout round - in fact both Moyes and OGS both won more knockout rounds than Jose did.
CL, smashed their group (w5,l1) but first knockout round they went out to Seville. Not good enough, absolutely.
For amount they spent they played woeful football, very much reliant on DDG to keep them competitive in many games. I'm sure xG will show that under Jose United should have lost far more games than they did even in the season they finished 2nd.
Year they came second they had 81 points, GD+40. Scored the 5th most goals (68) and conceded the second fewest (28)
Incidentally we scored 74, conceded 36 (GD+38) and the difference between us was they won two games we drew.
Doesnt sound "woeful" to me, though I appreciate they were hardly playing champagne stuff.
I think, to be honest, Jose had his hands tied much of the time and his comments about the season tell you the achievement he feels he made:
‘My view is that first of all is difficult for me to believe we finished second when I listen, when I read, not much but sometimes I do, is difficult to believe that we finished second because you are capable of making people that finish second look like they were relegated,’ Mourinho said during today’s press conference.
‘And people who win nothing, finish below us, and you make them look like serial winners.’ ‘It is difficult for me to understand we finish second which I keep saying, that I won eight championships and three Premier Leagues but I keep feeling the second last season was one of my biggest achievements in the game.’
Shall i mention the crazy wages they lavished on Sanchez under his watch? No way Woodward does that without Jose telling him to. And all their problems of paying far too mediocre players like Rashford and Lindgaard crazy inflated wages mostly stemmed from paying Sanchez the crazy amount they did. What team spirit and togetherness they had died after that and likely will take years to recover.
Genuinely dont lay that at the managers door, thats Woodward.
It was clear over time Jose wanted one thing, Woodward another. Remember reports of Mourinho wanting a defender, and none coming in (Woodward happy to blow £80m on Maguire, Im sure because of Liverpool and VVD)? Or Mourinho wanting rid of Marital but Woodward refusing?
I think there were definite issues within the club impeding Jose from working as he would like. And, Ive no doubt, all areas of the club operating properly.
But spending? Mourinho doesnt sign the cheques. And Woodward has shown - before and since - this wasnt Jose's doing, IMO.
Shall i also mention whether way he seldom uses players from the youth team?
Absolutely, 100%, completely valid point to raise. I watched a video the other day (from Jul16, so out of date), someone mentioned this to Jose and he refuted by saying he had given 49 youth players debuts.
This is entirely true. BUT... not one of them got much of a look in afterwards, and most barely played under Mourinho after the debut or really amounted to much otherwise.
United are a mess structurally and Woodward has a part to play in that he seems to blow with the wind and seems to lack much planning.
Jose on both the playing side and wage distribution side has left them in a far worse state than when he arrived. How many players improved under his coaching?
I really think Woodward is the greater problem there, and much of what you attribute to Mourinho you do so unfairly.
Players improved? In the eye of the beholder that one, and I dont follow Utd game to game enough to tell you to be honest.
I think its fair to say Mourinho has a preference to players with more maturity/consistency.
