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***OMT - Tottenham Hotspur v Wolverhampton Wanderers, Molineux, Sat 25th April, 3pm - ***

You see the same performances as under Frank and Tudor?
Really?
Tudor was not the same as Frank. The attack is still poor and until today we were still conceding chances. I think you are getting ahead of yourself a bit here. We are in an extraordinary situation so not the time to judge a manager

I think "looking good" is overreaching.
 
Tudor was not the same as Frank. The attack is still poor and until today we were still conceding chances. I think you are getting ahead of yourself a bit here. We are in an extraordinary situation so not the time to judge a manager

I think "looking good" is overreaching.
I’m getting ahead of myself?
 
The slide started once ridiculous injuries took hold, not because the foundations were so bad or that the manager was terrible.
You cannot give Ange a pass for "ridiculous injuries/" and not do the same for Frank. He started off with 2 key players injured and the loss of Son. He also lost Solanke; 41 goals given up at the start of the season. He then lost Kudus and just as he started to look good he lost Odobert. I can't see how these can just be dismissed.

To be honest this debate is just mind numbing. The arguments get no where and the rabbit holes just get deeper and deeper. Neither manager was good enough. I don't think Ange could succeed because we couldn't defend effectively under him. Frank would have never worked either because we couldn't create enough chances. And he was disliked from the beginning by the fan base. He was a strange choice by the board anyway.

We just need to get behind the current manager for better or worse
 
Honestly never ceases to amaze me how much of a pass Frank gets in these debates. He should never have been appointed, so the ultimate blame goes to the people who made that decision. But he could have done things differently and had a better time of it.

It also never ceases to amaze me that the team is spoke about as ‘two years of this form’. It just isn’t. The season before last we finished 5th, and we were NO WHERE NEAR as bad in the second half of that season as we have been in this. And we also didn’t start last season badly either. The slide started once ridiculous injuries took hold, not because the foundations were so bad or that the manager was terrible.

Each season is its its own thing, with its own dynamics. I frankly don’t understand the desire to talk down the ability of our players, especially when it’s completely incongruent with the fact that they are almost to a man top internationals. Clearly something has happened at the club that is bigger than just ‘the players are bad.’

And Frank served up the most risk averse, ungodly awful football that we have probably seen in the last 30 years minimum. It was dreadful. The fact that the players clearly enjoyed playing in a polar opposite style and enjoyed taking risks surely has to factor into people’s analysis of this season? They was clearly no proper buy in for what Frank is selling.

Frank could have done more to build on the bits of last season that the players appreciated. He could have made an effort to understand the dynamics of the squad better. But he didn’t do any of that. He decided to build a team in his image from the ground up. And if the squad was desperately calling for that, I’d get it. But that clearly wasn’t what was happening.

And overall fault clearly goes to the decision makers. Who decided to in a completely self inflicted manner to put yet more transition on the team. Transition that they weren’t asking for, and didn’t need. But the decision makers thought they were right. They were dead wrong.
Frank didn’t understand the club he was joining or the players he had
As good or as bad as people think the players are they all believe they are top players
To have a manager spend too much of his time focusing on the opposition doesn’t endear itself to players who believed they were better than that
For a man who sounds smart I don’t think he is or was
I refer back to the Interview he did with Carrick where he answer most questions with a question.
I guess we will see where he ends up next but this wasn’t the move for him clearly and we kept him here way way too long
 
“Err” no looking better than the catastrophe we’ve seen so far this season. He’s turning round a tanker after your boy Frank
Woah play the ball not the man mate. He wasn't "my boy." We were not good today. Hard to argue differently. Same patterns Disjointed between attack and defence. And injuries occurring to attacking players. But I don't expect too much to happen between now and the end of the season.
 
He is trying to turn it around
It’s a heavy slog for him but there have been some patterns of play and an effort to try to win. That’s a big improvement
So I was only listening on the radio. Chris Waddle who was commentating and supporting us, said we didn't look like a side who were fighting hard against relegation. He said we looked bereft. We didn't fashion a shot on goal until Bentancur's header and then the goal. I didn't mind that if we could keep a clean sheet, because we were able to nick it at the end. And personally, I think we need to be defensively sound first. We can work on our attack ING play next season when we get a few more players back.
 
Woah play the ball not the man mate. He wasn't "my boy." We were not good today. Hard to argue differently. But I don't expect too much to happen between now and the end of the season.
Oh sorry I thought you were right behind him?wrong account?

Seperately though did you think Wolves deserved to win or get a point?
IMO We clearly did enough… RDZ has just started to correct the direction, will take time though, (tanker and all that…..)
 
So I was only listening on the radio. Chris Waddle who was commentating and supporting us, said we didn't look like a side who were fighting hard against relegation. He said we looked bereft. We didn't fashion a shot on goal until Bentancur's header and then the goal. I didn't mind that if we could keep a clean sheet, because we were able to nick it at the end. And personally,bI think we need to be defensively sound first. We can work on our attack ING play next season when we get a few more players back.
The packed their half
They didn’t want to win and were waiting for us
It’s wasn’t pretty and was functional
But compared to how the team has regressed with a football this season it was a little better (not huge)
What was key was the team didn’t keep on going and trying
I do think ex players judge is harshly every time almost like they have managed under this pressure, which we know they haven’t
The injuries were grim but the result will unite the players
Hard to say if it’s enough but we would need some luck at some point imo (that handball at West Ham today was a joke as was the clear red on Bissouma)
 
So I was only listening on the radio. Chris Waddle who was commentating and supporting us, said we didn't look like a side who were fighting hard against relegation. He said we looked bereft. We didn't fashion a shot on goal until Bentancur's header and then the goal. I didn't mind that if we could keep a clean sheet, because we were able to nick it at the end. And personally,bI think we need to be defensively sound first. We can work on our attack ING play next season when we get a few more players back.

We were not at the same level as v Brighton in terms of fight, but the first half was ok in that regard - we were taking the game to Wolves but little to show for it in terms of chances created. Fizzled out towards the end of the first half. Second half not as good, Wolves were getting back in to it. Goal came from a corner. We done well enough defensively to deserve a clean sheet though I missed what was supposed to be a good chance for them that Kinsky saved.

Edit : mostly i would agree with Waddles assessment that we didn't look like a team fighting against relegation - prior to the goal we looked like a team going through the motions.
 
Oh sorry I thought you were right behind him?wrong account?

Seperately though did you think Wolves deserved to win or get a point?
IMO We clearly did enough… RDZ has just started to correct the direction, will take time though, (tanker and all that…..)
I've explained above how I saw today's game. In response to @Bedfordspurs . Seriously though no need for the needle. I have an opinion about Frank that's not all negative. You don't, that's fine too. I'm just sick of the relentless negativity and comparing one manager against the other.
 
We were not at the same level as v Brighton in terms of fight, but the first half was ok in that regard - we were taking the game to Wolves but little to show for it in terms of chances created. Fizzled out towards the end of the first half. Second half not as good, Wolves were getting back in to it. Goal came from a corner. We done well enough defensively to deserve a clean sheet though I missed what was supposed to be a good chance for them that Kinsky saved.

Edit : mostly i would agree with Waddles assessment that we didn't look like a team fighting against relegation - prior to the goal we looked like a team going through the motions.
First half was still very mixed with no shots of note despite being so dominant
The save at the end was great
 
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The packed their half
They didn’t want to win and were waiting for us
It’s wasn’t pretty and was functional
But compared to how the team has regressed with a football this season it was a little better (not huge)
What was key was the team didn’t keep on going and trying
I do think ex players judge is harshly every time almost like they have managed under this pressure, which we know they haven’t
The injuries were grim but the result will unite the players
Hard to say if it’s enough but we would need some luck at some point imo (that handball at West Ham today was a joke as was the clear red on Bissouma)
Injuries are still a big problem. They have cost us so dearly over the last 2 seasons. And will cost us next too if we can't get to the bottom of the reasons for it. I thought it was on Ange last season and some were but it's clear he was a victim too in the main. The fact that they are continuing this season suggests something underlying.
 
Injuries are still a big problem. They have cost us so dearly over the last 2 seasons. And will cost us next too if we can't get to the bottom of the reasons for it. I thought it was on Ange last season and some were but it's clear he was a victim too in the main. The fact that they are continuing this season suggests something underlying.
luck
Sounds daft
But it’s bad luck
Players getting injuries through contact like Xavi is just that
i don’t think there is a fix
 
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Not it's not dismissable

There was nothing pointing towards that though. I've said it before but that Brighton game was the death of him (yes I know we were drunk but we played exactly the same way we always did). I was in the stadium and the atmosphere went from jubilant before the game to depressed after it.

The whole play one way in Europe, then revert in the league just wasn't good enough. Not taking the medical teams advice did him no favours either.

Also for me it wasn't even an issue of the players being galanized etc, they are who they are and we've seen their abilty over 2 years and 4 managers now. It was a question of who could squeeze the most out of them. With the fitness management combined with the league form it was decided he couldn't.

Certainly a fair perspective.
That Brighton game was weird. I agree that no manager should really let players openly go on the tinkle like that before the season is over, however I would say that he'd known for a while he was going to be sacked, and that any hope a reprieve disappeared when he wasn't feted after the Final. I do agree it was not the right way to end regardless.
I don't know the full-extent of the medical team advice he supposedly ignored. I'm sure we all have our own 'sources' of info; mine did not suggest he did that in any situation other than the one game with both Romero and VdV, where he should not have let the player dictate.
Again, I see your POV even if I don't agree.
 
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