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***OMT - Tottenham Hotspur v Wolverhampton Wanderers, Molineux, Sat 25th April, 3pm - ***

harr1984 said:
I don't think anybody has said it's all down to Frank, but at the end of the day he was the manager and has to take a large portion of responsibility - you know just like Ange did on here even after winning a trophy. I think he's a good coach, but never believed he would work here - it just wasn't a good fit, and just one in a long list of bad decisions made by those in charge.

I will say it's funny how when things were going well at the start for Frank it was announced on here 'See, this is what a real coach looks like' backed up with praise for improving players x,y and z. Then as soon as it goes tits up, it's 'Well what do you expect with a squad who suffered over 20 losses' and 'All our players are brick'. Football fans eh :) ....
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Indeed!!!
 
billyiddo said:
Moving in the right direction points wise at least, 4 from 3 games. Whether it's sustainable is up in the air - same issues remain as before, lack of quality in midfield & attack and injuries continuing to undermine anything & everything.
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I think each game is now it's own mini-battle. I expect no consistency at all in actual performances other than gritting out what we need to do. I have my doubts personally, simply because West Ham seem to have a fit squad all the time and last minute breaks, but we keep going and DeZerbi is occupying the space between eyebrows and hairline well right now all told. A penny for his thoughts on the injuries though...
 
Robspur12 said:
Same issues as before in attack and injuries galore; plus he keeps starting Muani whichi is worrying. This is an extraordinary situation too so difficult to properly judge him. But if he saves us it will be one of biggest achievement of any Spurs manager in the PL era?
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I hope upon hope that DeZerbi gets a tune out of him and he goes on a scoring streak. Perhaps if he plays as our number 9 it will happen?
 
thfcsteff said:
I think each game is now it's own mini-battle. I expect no consistency at all in actual performances other than gritting out what we need to do. I have my doubts personally, simply because West Ham seem to have a fit squad all the time and last minute breaks, but we keep going and DeZerbi is occupying the space between eyebrows and hairline well right now all told. A penny for his thoughts on the injuries though...
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That’s 100% right
We need to take any momentum game by game
My mate was at West Ham (he is an Everton fan) and he is fuming
He also thought West Ham were poor and there for the taking but Everton were missing their CF. Will they keep on kicking points… who knows
What is key is what we do
 
Robspur12 said:
So I was only listening on the radio. Chris Waddle who was commentating and supporting us, said we didn't look like a side who were fighting hard against relegation. He said we looked bereft. We didn't fashion a shot on goal until Bentancur's header and then the goal. I didn't mind that if we could keep a clean sheet, because we were able to nick it at the end. And personally, I think we need to be defensively sound first. We can work on our attack ING play next season when we get a few more players back.
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Nah, that's not true at all. Waddle's off his nut there. They were fighting, they were working hard, Wolves folded into a block and our usual issues of not quality chances vs some sloppy play (especially from Muani) led to a second-half where without Solanke, and then Simons, I think the team were rocked. In fact, given that we lost two more key players to injury in 97 minutes, i think this result was huge.
Here's the players we 'thought' would be available for DeZerbi on arrival to play in the same team at the same time.
Kudus, Romero, Udogie, Xavi, Sarr, Vicario.
I won't even bother mentioning Maddison, Deki, and Odobert.
Does Davies count?
It's madness.
 
harr1984 said:
I don't think anybody has said it's all down to Frank, but at the end of the day he was the manager and has to take a large portion of responsibility - you know just like Ange did on here even after winning a trophy. I think he's a good coach, but never believed he would work here - it just wasn't a good fit, and just one in a long list of bad decisions made by those in charge.

I will say it's funny how when things were going well at the start for Frank it was announced on here 'See, this is what a real coach looks like' backed up with praise for improving players x,y and z. Then as soon as it goes tits up, it's 'Well what do you expect with a squad who suffered over 20 losses' and 'All our players are brick'. Football fans eh :) ....
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I am genuinely tired of the arguments mate. But I guess it is what football fandom is about on the internet. What is clear, Europe aside , we've been awful for 2 seasons now. I don't think it is all on the managers, injuries as I keep saying have played a huge part. But I do think Ange's system would have broken down this season as teams all seem to play not too lose. Does that make me a Frank fan boy? Well I don't think everything was terrible under him or that we are currently much different. But he was the wrong manager for us. He failed and was rightly sacked. For me so was Ange.

I don't think we can' judge this manager until next season. But today was a great win.
 
thfcsteff said:
Nah, that's not true at all. Waddle's off his nut there. They were fighting, they were working hard, Wolves folded into a block and our usual issues of not quality chances vs some sloppy play (especially from Muani) led to a second-half where without Solanke, and then Simons, I think the team were rocked. In fact, given that we lost two more key players to injury in 97 minutes, i think this result was huge.
Here's the players we 'thought' would be available for DeZerbi on arrival to play in the same team at the same time.
Kudus, Romero, Udogie, Xavi, Sarr, Vicario.
I won't even bother mentioning Maddison, Deki, and Odobert.
Does Davies count?
It's madness.
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The BBC live reporting agreed with Waddle. Did we fashion more chances?
 
Robspur12 said:
The BBC live reporting agreed with Waddle. Did we fashion more chances?
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Chance creation was stodgy to say the least. Lots of possession and plenty of effort though. I think the 'didn't look like a side fighting hard against relegation' stuff suggests that he wanted to see us running aimlessly all over the place, throwing ourselves into tackle after tackle and generally 'looking busy'. What I thought was we took the game very seriously, made sure to try and keep things tight, pressed really well (first-half much better than second) and wrestled the game our way. Simons would've scored first-half but for a great defensive block. I'd say Waddle's being lazy there. We are certainly not used to this fight, but I cannot question the effort or desire to get a result.
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
Each season is its its own thing, with its own dynamics. I frankly don’t understand the desire to talk down the ability of our players, especially when it’s completely incongruent with the fact that they are almost to a man top internationals. Clearly something has happened at the club that is bigger than just ‘the players are bad.’
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Just wondering whether our profile of internationals are that good. I can definitely see why people would use that as an argument against the quality of our squad. I personally don’t think we have “top” internationals.

We might have Romero in Argentina’s team as the exception but who else would really elevate themselves when thinking about the highest international level? Even if only look through the England lens, we used to have players that would be in our country’s best eleven. We now have players scratching around trying to make the squad but nowhere near the starting eleven.
 
Quite frankly, all I care about is the win. Maybe something will click, even if the performance wasn't impressive. Also, it's a shame West Ham grabbed that late win, but it's out of our control now anyway. We need to get as many points as we can from the remaining four games. It's a shame Chelsea sacked Rosenior because, for a moment, it seemed we might get something at their place as they were almost as bad as we are.

We're still lacking an enormous amount of quality when it comes to creating chances and what happened (or rather - didn't happen) between November and January is borderline criminal but that's another thing we can't do anything about. I thought a draw was on the card for a long time but we can't afford to be picky. An ugly win is a win. We've got another huge game at Villa but at least, we're still in it. Congrats to the players who kept on fighting until the end.
 
Robspur12 said:
You cannot give Ange a pass for "ridiculous injuries/" and not do the same for Frank. He started off with 2 key players injured and the loss of Son. He also lost Solanke; 41 goals given up at the start of the season. He then lost Kudus and just as he started to look good he lost Odobert. I can't see how these can just be dismissed.

To be honest this debate is just mind numbing. The arguments get no where and the rabbit holes just get deeper and deeper. Neither manager was good enough. I don't think Ange could succeed because we couldn't defend effectively under him. Frank would have never worked either because we couldn't create enough chances. And he was disliked from the beginning by the fan base. He was a strange choice by the board anyway.

We just need to get behind the current manager for better or worse
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With Ange, the form dipped when the injuries piled up. It was a really clear correlation. With Frank, we actually had a deeper squad and started to fall away before the worst of the injuries started to bite.

I don’t think Frank failed *because* of the injuries, I think he failed because he was set up to fail by the decision makers, and because he couldn’t read the room well enough himself. It clearly wasn’t working about 3 months before he was sacked.

Ange got us 5th, but I’m also defending our players. I think it’s a really interesting insight into how people perceive different things but I am amazed that our players get criticised more than the guy that had never managed at this level, looked way out of his depth, and played a style of football that was unsuited to their strengths and clearly never had the squad’s buy in.
 
Muttley said:
Just wondering whether our profile of internationals are that good. I can definitely see why people would use that as an argument against the quality of our squad. I personally don’t think we have “top” internationals.

We might have Romero in Argentina’s team as the exception but who else would really elevate themselves when thinking about the highest international level? Even if only look through the England lens, we used to have players that would be in our country’s best eleven. We now have players scratching around trying to make the squad but nowhere near the starting eleven.
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I think there’s clearly not someone on the level of Kane or peak Son. But our players are superior on the whole to at least 10 of the teams in this league, if not more. In terms of their level of experience, their international pedigree, how proven they are in this league, how much they would command on the market, whatever metric you like.

It just makes me laugh how people can look at our squad and genuinely think it should be 18th, rather than thinking that something has gone hopelessly, drasticallyc wrong.
 
tommysvr said:
There's 4 games to go. Who the fudge cares about performances?
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Agreed.

Also though, the performances and intent are just so obviously a level up and it’s strange to deny it. The level in the league is so high this season that Wolves can get Arsenal to drop points. And if they chose to sit in, they aren’t going to let us create much.

But equally, we gave literally nothing up all match. We dealt with injuries to two of our starting attackers. And we came out with a deserved win.
 
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