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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)
- Thread starter SpurMeUp
- Start date
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Israel, Korea and the US?
Research & development spending as a share of GDP
Includes basic research, applied research, and experimental development.
ourworldindata.org
I agree and disagree with many parts of this.
I agree that the NHS needs a complete overhaul and whether people like it or not, allowing hundreds of thousands of people in to the country is never going to help. Yes, immigration is a good thing, just like having a social drink or two, but as always, too much of good thing, never turns out good. And it is not just numbers of people either, the types of medicines and treatments has also grown exponentially, many being very expensive indeed, many of which where never dreamed of when the NHS was first started has also had a huge impact on the cost of running the NHS.
But it is laughable you think that biggest source of stimulation are large corporate. This is the biggest load of waffle I have ever read. For starters when big corporate companies set up in the UK, nearly all of the jobs created are minimum wage, with people barely earning enough to feed their families, and pay their rent. The profits they make are then siphoned out of the country into offshore bank accounts for them and their investors. It is an undeniable fact that the best form economic growth is through family run local businesses, as the money they make gets spent and stays in the local economy. Corporations providing minimum wage does nothing to the local economy as no one can afford to do anything, especially if they have families. The biggest lie that ever gets told is that we need corporations, we don't. What we don't we need actual mechanisms that allow local companies to thrive, and remove big chains and corporations from they high street, as they are the single biggest cause of money being taken out of local economies.
I don't want no investment from any person or company who's intention are suck as much as they can from us, as cheaply as possible, then claim they are doing us a favor.
Not really. This idea that nurses and doctors are on the breadline and going to food banks to scrape by is total tosh. In fact, Labour are expected to u-turn on changes to pension tax relief for high earners as analysis showed it would disproportionately affect public sector workers and particularly NHS staff. The group cited that would be supplying among the largest uplift in government revenue based on these changes were nurses. Obviously the disproportionate impact is partly down to how gold-plated their pension schemes are, but it also highlights that many nurses are, in fact, in the high earner tax bracket.
Again in both cases it's about market. You don't pay NHS nurses enough- they leave and you have a huge backlog of vacancies. BUPA and other private practitioners pay a qualified nurse over £70K a year.
With a CEO of a large corporate, they are merely pointing out that they can easily relocate to France or Germany if conditions in the UK become uncompetitive.
SpiderSpurs
Darren Caskey
On the GB News thing earlier, Kemi Badenoch claimed that the Tory's have put almost £700m a week, yes a week into the NHS since Brexit????
She even mentioned the £350m on the side of the bus.
I'm pretty sure that's bollox!!
She even mentioned the £350m on the side of the bus.
I'm pretty sure that's bollox!!
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
I think that might actually be true (for once). Im pretty sure NHS funding has gone up by more than £350m a week since Brexit.
Its all leaked out to their big pharma mates through our destructive tendering regulations, but it has gone in.
It's not gonads actually. It's partly more accident than design on the tories part but yes, due to the uplift in funding for Covid that hadn't ever fully been stripped away (and has likely actually simply become a permanent funding benchmark), the NHS now has way more than £350 million a week extra than when that Brexit claim was made:
- Health & social care budget for 2016/2017 (when the bus claim was made) was £143.1 billion.
- Current budget is £179 billion so an uplift of circa £36 billion year or circa £692 million a week.
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Nope it is not, Theresa May upped the NHS budget by that amount, but did it over several years, the last addition being in 2022 or something. People still moaned about, something about trying to avoid yearly % increases or something. It was a slimy way to do it, but it was done.
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
Well its not just Doctors and Nurses getting a payrise though is it? Its people included on agenda for change terms which includes staff such as porters.
As I have mentioned on here plenty of times, having a mother (recently retired thank good) worked for the NHS for other 30 years. Despite the over bloated funding within, a large portion of the staff are on the breadline
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
I'm actually quite impressed by this (as card carrying Humanist UK), a senior religious figure using morals not dogma for once: https://www.theguardian.com/society...c-of-e-bishops-lords-back-assisted-dying-bill
And people wonder why we have a retention problem, which is the NHS's biggest problem.
I said it before and I will say it again. Migrants are being used "BY GOVERNMENT" to cover over the cracks of a broken a system. If anyone really cared about the NHS, then you need to solve the overriding issues in the country, like rent and housing costs, cost of living, quality of life and stop using migrants as a fix all.
richie_spur
Gordon Durie
Don't be too impressed by Mr Carey, he doesn't have a great history: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-40368573
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Ian Walker
Government investing in infrastructure is one way of creating employment, getting more people paying tax and cutting benefits, only problem is how it could be managed, all governments have a terrible record of selecting contractors and controlling timescale and cost. I suppose we could accept being robbed blind by contractors if it helped the economy.
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Ian Walker
I think at last it's become acceptable to say the NHS is broken. The service has been underfunded and badly managed since Mrs Thatcher decided to attack most of the population. Covid is the straw which broken its back, they carried out a herculean task without the resources and implementing unpopular systems. I've spent the last five years ferrying family members to various hospitals for a host of illnesses and injuries and apart from the obvious lack of staff the most frustrating thing is the terrible administration and communication, numerous times we've been sent to the wrong building or hospital and wrong consultant, had text messages reminding us of our appointment the same day as been told its cancelled, the classic was sitting in a consultation room with doctor and team of students and receiving a call telling us we had not attended the appointment. The admin staff may be overwhelmed but many give me the impression they aren't up to the job and lack interpersonal skills.
glasgowspur
Luka Modric
Everyone knows that the NHS is broken, everyone knows it needs to be fixed, but as soon as anyone tries to implement any changes it gets rounded on.
The NHS is one of the greatest achievements of any government, it was exactly what was needed and it done a fantastic job.
But those times are gone are, the world has moved on, it's time the NHS was allowed to as well.
Apply the assisted dieing act to NHS, build one for the requirements of today and tomorrow.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
Housing costs, cost of living, the disgraceful sabotage of a living wage, the near-destruction of public services via terrible/questionable investment? Absolutely agree 100%.
History tell us that migrants/immigrants are used and abused by everybody as it suits their agenda. The greatest abuse of cheaper labour in this country has come as a consequence of aggressive capitalism (as launched by Thatcher) which has suckered most people. Convenience AND cheap; they want it all!!! And as long as someone will work for less, then they'll get it (the soft erosion of workers rights have added to this). I suspect we are in agreement here.
Yet there is a massive, massive problem with our indigenous population simply not being prepared to do many of 'those' jobs. Add to that a total disregard for funding public education, and we have serious issues which are not going to be cured by simply cutting out migrants/immigration. Divide and conquer remains the single greatest tool 'they' have as it keeps us from recognizing the massive class divide which (if the disaffected united) could bring the overpaid and overpowerful to their knees.
I would agree that nations should always be reviewing their immigration policies, but the notion that putting serious curbs/restrictions on migrants as a first action is seriously, seriously flawed IMO. It will always be an easy touchstone for angry, disaffected people, and IMO it remains a dangerous and self-defeating place to come from.
...right now, Trump is pulling the Mein Kampf playbook. It is scary brick. Farage did it too but with a goofy grin and gentler words.
I have thought a lot about your posts, simply because I found your seering rage and deep indigence to be signs of someone who had either been wronged or felt wronged by current society. In many ways I think many of us feel that frustration, if not to your seeming-levels of expression. I've concluded we are a lot closer in agreement in several things than it might have appeared. In fact for me, it is your stand on migrants which is the biggest difference. I am not down wit that...
Offered in the spirit of discussion.
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Ian Walker
It's going to take a major change in our society to shift peoples attitude to what jobs are attractive to them. After WW2 people wanted a fresh start and more out of life, the country needed rebuilding and along with that came an assperation society, everyone want a better standard of living and more money and the only way to get it was to work at any job, few judge others on what they did but most wanted more for their kids.
I don't suppose many on here lived through those times but Britain was on its arse, housing conditions were terrible, I lived, eat and slept in one room with my parents until I was 7, we had an outside toilet and no bathroom. My parents left school at 14 with no qualifications, dad worked for railways and mum did cleaning and any other job she could get, they couldn't afford to have more kids so didn't. I was lucky I didn't go hungry or have to wear hand me down clothes like most of my schoolmates. I find it criminal that this country has been allowed to fall back in that state.
Until we start showing kids they can't have or do what they want now nothing will change, many kids do get jobs to buy their toys but too many of us (me included) have been to easy on them and bought into consumerism at any cost.
We need more jobs for kids leaving school, if they don't get a job for a year its putting them on the scrapheap and they accept that's their lot, few firms employ "juniors" which is where I and all my mates started, doing all the crap jobs and running errands.
It's not going to be easy, could be impossible but this government must try no matter how unpopular their policies will be in the short term (no less than 10 years), few have the vision or stomach to accept than opinion in our I want it now at no cost to me society. Luckily I've had my go on the ride but I want my grandchildren to have a go.
I don't suppose many on here lived through those times but Britain was on its arse, housing conditions were terrible, I lived, eat and slept in one room with my parents until I was 7, we had an outside toilet and no bathroom. My parents left school at 14 with no qualifications, dad worked for railways and mum did cleaning and any other job she could get, they couldn't afford to have more kids so didn't. I was lucky I didn't go hungry or have to wear hand me down clothes like most of my schoolmates. I find it criminal that this country has been allowed to fall back in that state.
Until we start showing kids they can't have or do what they want now nothing will change, many kids do get jobs to buy their toys but too many of us (me included) have been to easy on them and bought into consumerism at any cost.
We need more jobs for kids leaving school, if they don't get a job for a year its putting them on the scrapheap and they accept that's their lot, few firms employ "juniors" which is where I and all my mates started, doing all the crap jobs and running errands.
It's not going to be easy, could be impossible but this government must try no matter how unpopular their policies will be in the short term (no less than 10 years), few have the vision or stomach to accept than opinion in our I want it now at no cost to me society. Luckily I've had my go on the ride but I want my grandchildren to have a go.
glasgowspur
Luka Modric
Despite what is the current rhetoric life has got better for most, is it good enough for some, no, is the change happening quickly enough, no, but it has undoubtedly got better.
@thfcsteff speaks above about divide and conquer, there are many divisions and the generational one is just another in the play book, and there will never be enough divisions.
The more divided the less chance of proper change, our system in the West is broken, I see no one on the political landscape with a will or a vision to change it.
Why should they, it doesn't affect them.
Trump the darling of the right is fighting legal case after legal case.
The darlings of the left, Merkel, aherne, veradker, sturgeon, trudeau all in "power" at once made not a jot of difference, three of them slunk off when the going got tough and the other has as many court cases as trump.
What's the answer, fudged if I know, what's more worrying is no one in power knows either, or if they do it's so unpalatable to Joe public that they can't sell it to them.
As long as we buy the division tactics none of that will change
Rorschach
Sonny Walters
Your darlings of the left list has a few questionable entries.
glasgowspur
Luka Modric
I did think about putting centre, but as most as their followers would consider themselves to be at the very least left leaning it seemed more apt.
And yes, they are very questionable, although I think we are at cross purposes and that one.