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Politics, politics, politics

Gutter Boy said:
Yes - O'Mara unfortunately.

Just some general right of recall, if say 30% (a level high enough that it would need not just partisan support) of those on the electoral register sign a petition, would be good.

I don't think that London constituency can even get rid of their MP who is in prison at the moment
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Something like that seems fair. I do think for MPs who resign their whip/get fired from the party, it should be automatic, as you no longer are standing for that which you got elected on. And that's not a knee-jerk from me, I have always thought that, for whoever the MP is.
 
ShipOfGoldblum said:
Well, I’m happy. Very happy. Been waiting for this ever since Steptoe took over. I’ll vote for them, join their new party whatever absurd, Apprentice-style name they come up with, send them cash and deliver their leaflets.
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I am not overly keen on any of the parties, I think we need new parties with new ideas. In an ideal world I would vote for a green party with centre right leanings. I do not know enough about politics in other countries to know if any party exists anywhere that would actually fit me. I dislike both the republicans and democrats in America though was some what taken with Sanders in the US.
 
it’s an interesting question, yes local MP’s campaign against a national manifesto but they also (should) have more local interests, the same way as they should vote in parliament based on constituent interest opposed to the whip.

An MP should run on their own ideals for the party that is the closest match, the ideas should come first.

In that situation, which I accept isn’t the way things actually work, an MP’s party shouldn’t matter as their principles won’t change*.

*I know, lol
 
The average Brits head would explode if we had the same large choice of parties to vote for here as they do in a lot of other countries.

(I do actually think there needs to be some change I'm just saying...)
 
scaramanga said:
The problem is clearly endemic in the party - that was clear from their attempts to rewrite what is considered anti-semitic speech. They failed, repeatedly, to properly deal with anti-semitism within the party because there's clearly no will to do so.

It's clearly far more important to push the communist and anti-Israel agenda than it is to promote equality.
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Yes of course because there are no racists at all in the Tory party. please!
 
Grays_1890 said:
Honda going in 2022 then, blaming Brexit!!!
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Seedy Ron said:
I know Honda have moved other production back to their Japanese plants. The HRV for Europe was made in Mexico, for example, but is now made in Japan.

Not having a fudging clue what Brexit will actually be won't help anyone of course, but I think they're probably trying to use home capacity too.
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What effect has the new EU free trade agreement had? It came into force a month or two ago. Where Japan had tariffs on cars entering the EU, the trade agreement starts to remove them. The agreement was signed off after article 50 was submitted and the UK was not at the table to protect UK jobs. Is this part of the reason for all the Japanese companies pulling out?

I think there are also 'soft' reasons. Thatcher brokered a deal with the Japanese. More or less said to them, get in bed with us and we'll welcome you and look after you. And the Japanese came. Brexit has ended that good faith I think. Sony have gone, Honda are going, Nissan are reducing their presence.

It is funny (and tragic) we were told pre-vote and since the vote that car manufacturing would be affect by Brexit. Some said this was gonads. Today those same people are desperately holding on to the fact there are many variables that influence a company moving premises. But with all else the same, and only Brexit the new variable, how long can the deniers who said Brexit wouldn't have an economic impacts, or "cost one job" stay credible?
 
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“It has nothing to do with Brexit”
 
I wasn't saying it has nothing to do with it, just that it follows a pattern with them which isn't necessarily Brexit related in this case. Think they've moved production from Turkey and Australia too.

I'd gladly rip Brexit up and pretend it was all a figment of Chich's diseased imagination.
 
SpurMeUp said:
What effect has the new EU free trade agreement had? It came into force a month or two ago. Where Japan had tariffs on cars entering the EU, the trade agreement starts to remove them. The agreement was signed off after article 50 was submitted and the UK was not at the table to protect UK jobs. Is this part of the reason for all the Japanese companies pulling out?

I think there are also 'soft' reasons. Thatcher brokered a deal with the Japanese. More or less said to them, get in bed with us and we'll welcome you and look after you. And the Japanese came. Brexit has ended that good faith I think. Sony have gone, Honda are going, Nissan are reducing their presence.

It is funny (and tragic) we were told pre-vote and since the vote that car manufacturing would be affect by Brexit. Some said this was gonad*s. Today those same people are desperately holding on to the fact there are many variables that influence a company moving premises. But with all else the same, and only Brexit the new variable, how long can the deniers who said Brexit wouldn't have an economic impacts, or "cost one job" stay credible?
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It's clearly not Brexit though is it? I don't think you believe that either - you're too intelligent for that.

Those jobs are moving because the Germany wants to exports cars to Japan, and so the EU is removing all tariffs. That manufacturing and those jobs would have gone whether we were still in the EU or not.

There was only ever one reason Japanese car firms put manufacturing plants in the UK - avoiding EU tariffs. Once those tariffs were removed, those plants would be closing whether we're in the EU or not.
 
scaramanga said:
It's clearly not Brexit though is it? I don't think you believe that either - you're too intelligent for that.

Those jobs are moving because the Germany wants to exports cars to Japan, and so the EU is removing all tariffs. That manufacturing and those jobs would have gone whether we were still in the EU or not.
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Except if we were at the table, we could have protected UK jobs, by rejecting 0% tariffs on Japanese cars imports. That was the point I was asking/making. If so it is very much Brexit. Also Sony don't sell cars and they've gone to Amsterdam, so its more complex than straight up economics. A shift in a global relationship.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Except if we were at the table, we could have protected UK jobs, by rejecting 0% tariffs on Japanese cars imports. That was the point I was asking/making. So yes if so it is Brexit. Also Sony don't sell cars and they've gone to Amsterdam, so its more complex than straight up economics.
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You think that would have worked? You clearly haven't seen how the EU works.

For an example, see how long it is before Luxembourg's veto on tax is meaningless.
 
scaramanga said:
You think that would have worked? You clearly haven't seen how the EU works.

For an example, see how long it is before Luxembourg's veto on tax is meaningless.
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How are the EU doing looking after Ireland, their member, ensuring there is no hard boarder? A tiny EU nation but they stick up for their own. One of the reasons free trade agreements are so tough is everyone, every industry, every country, every region has to be happy. If we as a power member of the EU said we can't have zero tariffs on Japanese cars it will undermine our industry and threaten thousands of jobs, this Japanese FTA wouldn't have happened exactly like this - that is my guess.

Furthermore, it is more complex than that. Jaguar moved to Slovakia. Sony to Amsterdam - both nothing to do with a Japanese trade agreement. But they also left. There is only so much you can explain away, before you have to hold you hands up and admit Brexit is having an effect, as predicted.
 
SpurMeUp said:
How are the EU doing looking after Ireland, their member, ensuring there is no hard boarder? A tiny EU nation but they stick up for their own. One of the reasons free trade agreements are so tough is everyone, every industry, every country, every region has to be happy. If we as a power member of the EU said we can't have zero tariffs on Japanese cars it will undermine our industry and threaten thousands of jobs, this Japanese FTA wouldn't have happened exactly like this - that is my guess.

Furthermore, it is more complex than that. Jaguar moved to Slovakia. Sony to Amsterdam - both nothing to do with a Japanese trade agreement. But they also left. There is only so much you can explain away, before you have to hold you hands up and admit Brexit is having an effect, as predicted.
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There are plenty in Ireland who think they're being thrown under the bus.
 
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