rSol

[Gazza Dazzla]

I can't see how the tree reference that people sang can be construed as anything other than racist. If someone sang that without the knowledge of what it refers to, then the plain ignorance of that person should be punishable.

What are you on about?! The irony of you writing about ignorance is fantastic! Have you ever heard of Judas or what he did (I'm not talking about rsol here either)? To take that chant as anything other than a reference to judas says far more about the person thinking it's racist than the people singing it.

 

[markysimmo]

Clownfoot

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judas_Iscariot

Judas Iscariot (Hebrew: יהודה‎, Yehuda, Yəhûḏāh) was, according to the New Testament, one of the Twelve Apostles of Jesus Christ, and the son of Simon Iscariot.

He is infamously known for his kiss and betrayal of Jesus to the hands of the chief Sanhedrin priests in exchange for a payment of thirty silver coins.[1] Though there are varied accounts of his death, the traditional version sees him as having hanged himself out of remorse following his betrayal. His place among the Twelve Apostles was later filled by Matthias.

He wasnt a black slave on the plantation

 

[chicken_badge]

Judas Iscariot hung himself for the crimes he committed it has **** all to do with hanging people because they are black

Exactly. Steff - I think the suicide reference is correct too.

So, a nasty sick chant.... but not racist or homophobic.

 

[mephitis]

I can't see how the tree reference that people sang can be construed as anything other than racist. If someone sang that without the knowledge of what it refers to, then the plain ignorance of that person should be punishable.

For ****s sake get real. You can't intellectualise a football chant. The song will have been concocted by a bunch of lads in a pub. Subtlety is not going to have got on the agenda.

Start with the context. Sol goes all bi-polar on his team mates and walks out at half-time. "Not long now 'til lunacy". No one knows where he is. "Where ever you may be." Has he topped himself? Are we bothered? "I won't give etc.......when you're swingin' from a tree". We feel betrayed by him "Judas C......." Some question his sexuality "with HIV".

Unsubtle dig at his state of mind? Tick! Joy at his potential suicide? Tick! ****ging him for betraying us? Tick! Cheap homophobic insult? Tick!

Insulting to those struggling with depression? 'Fraid so! Insensitive to those considering suicide or families of those that have committed suicide? Unfortunately yes! Putin like view of homosexuality? Hell yeh! Nuanced reference to lynching in the mould of "Strange Fruit"?:-k

Nah, don't think so.

 

[clownfoot]

Unsubtle dig at his state of mind? Tick! Joy at his potential suicide? Tick! ****ging him for betraying us? Tick! Cheap homophobic insult? Tick!

Insulting to those struggling with depression? 'Fraid so! Insensitive to those considering suicide or families of those that have committed suicide? Unfortunately yes! Putin like view of homosexuality? Hell yeh! Nuanced reference to lynching in the mould of "Strange Fruit"?:-k

Nah, don't think so.

Why do you think someone who wrote a song that insults mental health, suicide, HIV and homosexuality would draw a line at racism? I personally don't believe the Iscariot link. I think it is used as a tedious link to justify what has happened.

Say, for instance, the defence that the reference is to Judas Iscariot. Under scrutiny it is a pretty weak alibi. A single character that may or may not have existed, and may or may not have hung himself, in a book that has for centuries been used to justify heinous crimes. Compared to the well documented history of lynching of slaves in America, something that is taught on the national curriculum in this country, the Iscariot theory seems to have holes in.

Do you honestly think every person that sang the song in question was thinking of Judas Iscariot? I don't. The person who came up with it may have had that reference in mind, but once other people joined in, their interpretations may have differed.

We may have drifted off the original topic slightly here. I don't think the reason Campbell was looked over for the captaincy was his race, but he is a player who had received racial abuse during his career.

 

[scaramanga]

Why do you think someone who wrote a song that insults mental health, suicide, HIV and homosexuality would draw a line at racism? I personally don't believe the Iscariot link. I think it is used as a tedious link to justify what has happened.

Say, for instance, the defence that the reference is to Judas Iscariot. Under scrutiny it is a pretty weak alibi. A single character that may or may not have existed, and may or may not have hung himself, in a book that has for centuries been used to justify heinous crimes. Compared to the well documented history of lynching of slaves in America, something that is taught on the national curriculum in this country, the Iscariot theory seems to have holes in.

Do you honestly think every person that sang the song in question was thinking of Judas Iscariot? I don't. The person who came up with it may have had that reference in mind, but once other people joined in, their interpretations may have differed.

You know we've spent the last few years referring to him as Judas right? As in Judas Iscariot. Frankly, I think you'd find it pretty tough to find a Spurs fan who doesn't associate the name Judas with Campbell.

 

[Boonie]

Its not about Judas, its not about Lynching, its about wishing the cnut would kill himself. Simples. Why we have to debate this tosser every 6 months or so is beyond me. Just ignore him ffs, don't add more fuel to his publicity fire unless his book is kindling.

 

[markysimmo]

Why do you think someone who wrote a song that insults mental health, suicide, HIV and homosexuality would draw a line at racism? I personally don't believe the Iscariot link. I think it is used as a tedious link to justify what has happened.

Say, for instance, the defence that the reference is to Judas Iscariot. Under scrutiny it is a pretty weak alibi. A single character that may or may not have existed, and may or may not have hung himself, in a book that has for centuries been used to justify heinous crimes. Compared to the well documented history of lynching of slaves in America, something that is taught on the national curriculum in this country, the Iscariot theory seems to have holes in.

Do you honestly think every person that sang the song in question was thinking of Judas Iscariot? I don't. The person who came up with it may have had that reference in mind, but once other people joined in, their interpretations may have differed.

We may have drifted off the original topic slightly here. I don't think the reason Campbell was looked over for the captaincy was his race, but he is a player who had received racial abuse during his career.

What an absolute load of ******** that whole post is...

 

[Seedy Ron]

Say, for instance, the defence that the reference is to Judas Iscariot. Under scrutiny it is a pretty weak alibi. A single character that may or may not have existed, and may or may not have hung himself, in a book that has for centuries been used to justify heinous crimes. Compared to the well documented history of lynching of slaves in America, something that is taught on the national curriculum in this country, the Iscariot theory seems to have holes in.

I think you'd probably find the story of Judas is much more widely known over here than the story of black slavery/lynchings in America. We called him Judas before the song, because he took the goon's 30 pieces of silver and betrayed us. I find it amazing anyone can't see that tbh.

The song being hateful, homophobic and just generally greatly unpleasant, doesn't make it racist.

 

[clownfoot]

Its not about Judas, its not about Lynching, its about wishing the cnut would kill himself. Simples. Why we have to debate this tosser every 6 months or so is beyond me. Just ignore him ffs, don't add more fuel to his publicity fire unless his book is kindling.

You are probably more accurate than any of us

 

[Papercut]

We can't really generalise the intent can we? Some may sing it because of the racial connotation, some may sing it because they know the Judas story, some may sing it because everyone else is and some may sing it because it rhymes!

Unless you find the guys who invented the chant and question them, then you will never get an answer. The only thing combining those chanting it is a vocal hate for Sol Campbell...

 

[billyiddo]

you're of course right Papercut - i would say however that it would be a massive stretch to think it was racially motivated - this aint the deep south of america, it's London England - lynchings aren't really our forte

In all honesty that link never even occurred to me and it wasn't until the fuss was made about it that it even entered my mind.

 

[mephitis]

Why do you think someone who wrote a song that insults mental health, suicide, HIV and homosexuality would draw a line at racism?

I don't, but my point was that if they were going to be racist they wouldn't exactly be subtle about it, would they? Let's face it, your average football chant's not going challenge the likes of Keats or Byron on the metaphor/simile front. We rarely rise above the level of "Your Support is ****ing ****!" tbf.

 

[Baleforce]

it's a football chant, not a signed police statement

we don't really thinks spurs are the greatest team the world has ever seen, most of us aren't yids and we're not an army either

some things shouldn't be taken literally

 

[thfcsteff]

I've read this thread with interest…

Here are the words, one more time…


"Sol, Sol, wherever you may be
You're on the verge of lunacy
And we don't give a f*** if you're hanging from a tree
You Judas c*** with HIV."


If you're 'comfortable' singing that, well, we are different people...

 

[Baleforce]

I don't think anyone is with rational thought

we know people behave differently when herd mentality kicks in

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

Whose saying they are comfortable singing that? The last 2 pages are because someone decided to try and turn this in to a racist chant when any sane individual can see it's not.

Everybody knows who Judas is, everyone knows how he killed himself, anyone who knows anything about football knows we call Rsol Judas. These are facts not up for debate. Where does the kkk and racism come in to this and what sort of agenda must some people have to try and bring that up?

 

[Bullet]

In all honesty that link never even occurred to me and it wasn't until the fuss was made about it that it even entered my mind.

This.

Perhaps people that have lived in America see it differently, but I would never, ever link a hanging with being black. There are/were loads of hangings throughout the world and I don't see any particular link to America or slaves as more obvious than any other hanging. I just see it as abusing rSol and guess what... tree rhymes with lunacy.

 

[Bullet]

To see if my view of the world is odd I Googled hanging and found the top hits are a child that hanged himself in his bedroom presumably due to bullying, which seems to be a weekly occurrence in the UK sadly. Hanging of 5 homosexuals in Iran. Hanging of prisoners found guilty at Nuremberg trials. Various other references but nothing about racism.

Looking at the wiki I found this rather gruesome and interesting snippet about being hung upside down between 2 dogs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanging#Inverted_hanging.2C_the_.22Jewish.22_punishment

I'm glad I didn't live in those days, check this out: the appeal to the empress was successful, and out of mercy, the Jew was condemned to be merely pinched with glowing pincers, have hot lead dripped into his wounds, and then be broken alive on the wheel.

 

[Gazza Dazzla]

To see if my view of the world is odd I Googled hanging and found the top hits are a child that hanged himself in his bedroom presumably due to bullying, which seems to be a weekly occurrence in the UK sadly. Hanging of 5 homosexuals in Iran. Hanging of prisoners found guilty at Nuremberg trials. Various other references but nothing about racism.

Looking at the wiki I found this rather gruesome and interesting snippet about being hung upside down between 2 dogs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanging#Inverted_hanging.2C_the_.22Jewish.22_punishment

I'm glad I didn't live in those days, check this out: the appeal to the empress was successful, and out of mercy, the Jew was condemned to be merely pinched with glowing pincers, have hot lead dripped into his wounds, and then be broken alive on the wheel.

That would still be too good for Judas (and by Judas i'm referring to Rsol, for those that aren't sure)