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Squad

Chrissivad said:
No.

PL squad is just home grown.
But for European squads you have association trained and club trained.

Association trained is anyone who came through the youth system under the English FA. Club trained needs to be from your academy (more to it than just that, but that's the simple outline)
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Yes that's what I was saying. Association trained and club trained.... and surely 'home grown' would be one and the same thing as 'club trained'?
 
Modric THFC said:
In the short term there is a case for signing players just for the Premier League squad that just aren't in the European squad
Should the European squad dictate everything?
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Agreed, in coming years we will see more and more of this.
With the amount of games, you cannot expect players to stretch across all competitions.
Not only club games, but internationals and friendlies and strange club friendlies at the end of the season and tours before the season after a World Cup, it is just too much.

So I believe big clubs like Spurs could easily have say 4 players who are only registered in PL to take the strain away from having to do EL and vice versa for the other players.

Cheatski basically. Their players are staying fit, as they aren't under too much strain, so they rotate and stay fit.

Emirates Marketing Project are like Spurs, lots of injuries which means other players get more time and more strain and eventually get injured too.
 
A quick Cann table of our squad ages; apart from Forster/Son/Davies, age is certainly on their side if peak years are 23-29.
I threw in some notable U21s and loanees too in brackets... not all will make it, but hopefully some will be good enough to fill some gaps.

36 Forster
35
34
33
32 Son
31 Davies
30
29
28 Vicario Reguilon Bissouma Maddison (Werner)
27 Bentancur Solanke Richarlison
26 Romero (Whiteman)
25 Porro (Austin)
24 Spence Kulusevski
23 VdVen Johnson (Gil)
22 Dragusin Udogie Sarr (MaxRobson)
21 (Veliz Keeley)
20 Odobert (AlfieDevine DaneScarlett DanteCassanova)
19 Lankshear Phillips (AlfieDorrington JamieDonley MaesonKing TyreseHall LucaGunter)
18 Gray Bergvall Yang (LeoBlack)
17 Moore (Vuskovic Olusesi)
16 (MalachiHardy WilliamsBarnett)
 
Bullet said:
A quick Cann table of our squad ages; apart from Forster/Son/Davies, age is certainly on their side if peak years are 23-29.
I threw in some notable U21s and loanees too in brackets... not all will make it, but hopefully some will be good enough to fill some gaps.
Click to expand...

Thought it might be interesting to compare with ARSEnal and Liverpool’s squads, so have edited in their players who’ve featured for more than 250 minutes this season. Hopefully we’re only a couple more transfer windows / years of development away from having a squad which has enough quality to be able to challenge for the title again.

36 Forster
35
34
33 van Dijk
32 Son Jorginho Alison, Salah
31 Davies Partey
30 Trossard, Sterling Robertson
29 Raya
28 Vicario, Reguilon, Bissouma, Maddison, (Werner) Merino, Zinchenko Tsimikas, Jota
27 Bentancur, Solanke, Richarlison White, Jesus Gomez, Diaz
26 Romero (Whiteman) Gabriel, Tomiyasu Alexander-Arnold, Kelleher
25 Porro (Austin) Rice, Odegaard, Havertz Konate, Gakpo, MacAllister, Nunez
24 Spence, Kulusevski Kiwior Szoboszlai
23 VdVen, Johnson (Gil) Saliba, Saka, Martinelli, Timber Jones
22 Dragusin, Udogie, Sarr (Robson) Califori Gravenbach
21 (Veliz, Keeley) Bradley, Quansah
20 Odobert (Devine, Scarlett,Cassanova)
19 Lankshear, Phillips (Dorrington, Donley, King, Hall, Gunter)
18 Gray, Bergvall, Yang (Black) Lewis-Skelly
17 Moore (Vuskovic, Olusesi) Nwaneri
16 (MalachiHardy WilliamsBarnett)
 
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Modric THFC said:
How years of bad planning has left us with a tiny squad

Look at our Premier League squad
We can fit another 6 senior players in here

View attachment 18233

But why don't we?
Because the European squad is full

View attachment 18234

We have no club trained players really. That reduces the size of the squad.
In comparison Arsenal have Saka, Martinelli and Saliba as club trained.
Their 3rd keeper is an 18 year old that qualifies as List B.
We are naming a 3rd and 4th choice keeper in the squad.
Pape Sarr would be club trained if he had joined Tottenham immediately on signing.
Spurs messed up by letting him stay in France on loan.

Signing 18 year old players is the long term fix for this.
Bergvall and Gray will be both club trained (needs 3 seasons) for the 2027/28 season, list B (needs 2 seasons) for the 2026/27 season.
Min-hyeok Yang will be club trained in January 2028 and list B January 2027.
Luka Vuskovic will be club trained in for the 2028/29 season and list B for the 2027/28 season.
Wilson Odobert joined at 19 and will only ever be Association trained.

In the short term there is a case for signing players just for the Premier League squad that just aren't in the European squad
Should the European squad dictate everything?
Click to expand...

To get to the heart of this, I really believe you have to look at everything you say above PLUS our loanees. As you say, it feels like we have no club trained and I found it strange we didn't even declare Robson. However, next season we will have a bunch of youngsters one year older.

Josh Keeley - Whiteman will leave as a free agent. Austin will probably stay. Forster may even get a year extension after his recent heroics and general popularity in the squad. Keeley though will be over 21 and able to be club trained.

Alfie Devine - this season U21 in the PL means born after 1/1/03. That means Alfie will be born after 1/1/04 next season (Aug) and still be an U21 even though he'll be 21. That means he'll be a free pick on the B-list

Matthew Craig - was our U21 captain but is now on his second loan. He is born before 1/1/04 so would be club trained next season. Some talk of him having his current loan cancelled and heading back in Jan. Hard to call this one, as it could be to flog him, use him or get him a better loan.

Ashley Phillips - UEFA have a rule that if you're not U21 but haven't been registered for 2 years with your club you can't be named as a B-lister. However, next season Phillips will be both U21 and have 2 years tenure. Therefore he'll be a free-pick B-list.

Alejo Veliz - unfortunately for him, he'll be classed as a senior as he was born before 1/104. That means we get to learn whether he can be aport of the 1st team and named as one of the 17.

Dane Scarlett - another one born after 1/1/04 so will be classed as an U21 and therefore be a B-lister.

So in effect, we could have Austin, Keeley and Craig as club trained next season along with Phillips, Scarlett and Devine as free pick U21 B-list. That would be like having 4 or 5 more players next season.

They key thing for me is the club making the right calls on Forster, Reggie, Davies, Richi and Werner. Perhaps even Bentancur and Bissouma. However, we'd need to find UEFA non-homegrown slots for Yang and Vuskovic, plus Spence who missed out. That's why it's not as easy as just keeping Davies or Forster.

I think we have no choice that we have to trust that some of these kids are going to be long term assets. The baby is half out at this stage,
 
glasgowspur said:
Radu, vdv, Udogie, Sarr, gray, Bergvall, kulu, Spence, Johnson, Moore, Porro, add in Lankshear and vuskovic and it's a great squad if we can keep them together and progressing.
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It's very promising, just add appropriately going forward and the future squad looks to have a good base technical level. Something that's been lacking in the past and something I've felt has held us back at times and even right now trying to play Ange's system.
 
Modric THFC said:
How years of bad planning has left us with a tiny squad

Look at our Premier League squad
We can fit another 6 senior players in here

View attachment 18233

But why don't we?
Because the European squad is full

View attachment 18234

We have no club trained players really. That reduces the size of the squad.
In comparison Arsenal have Saka, Martinelli and Saliba as club trained.
Their 3rd keeper is an 18 year old that qualifies as List B.
We are naming a 3rd and 4th choice keeper in the squad.
Pape Sarr would be club trained if he had joined Tottenham immediately on signing.
Spurs messed up by letting him stay in France on loan.

Signing 18 year old players is the long term fix for this.
Bergvall and Gray will be both club trained (needs 3 seasons) for the 2027/28 season, list B (needs 2 seasons) for the 2026/27 season.
Min-hyeok Yang will be club trained in January 2028 and list B January 2027.
Luka Vuskovic will be club trained in for the 2028/29 season and list B for the 2027/28 season.
Wilson Odobert joined at 19 and will only ever be Association trained.

In the short term there is a case for signing players just for the Premier League squad that just aren't in the European squad
Should the European squad dictate everything?
Click to expand...
Fully agreed that what we've been doing for a while now and intensified this summer is the fix for that. I'm quite happy with us not kicking the can further down the road with that in the summer that was.

I'm not sure we could afford fixing that like this and signed ready made players in the summer. But moving forward now, and with us being another 18 months away from being able to register Bergvall, Gray and Odobert on the B list we probably don't have much room for more of these young players to be directly integrated in the first team squad.

For that reason and because of what our current squad needs are I hope the plan for January and the summer are more short term focused.
 
braineclipse said:
Fully agreed that what we've been doing for a while now and intensified this summer is the fix for that. I'm quite happy with us not kicking the can further down the road with that in the summer that was.

I'm not sure we could afford fixing that like this and signed ready made players in the summer. But moving forward now, and with us being another 18 months away from being able to register Bergvall, Gray and Odobert on the B list we probably don't have much room for more of these young players to be directly integrated in the first team squad.

For that reason and because of what our current squad needs are I hope the plan for January and the summer are more short term focused.
Click to expand...

I think you can buy a 21-25 year old and be more than short term focused. Obviously, if they are non-homegrown then you have to find some space in that part of the quota.

As I've said before, we absolutely do have some wriggle room to build this squad bigger though. We have Phillips completing his 2 years but still being U21. We have Keeley becoming club trained. We have Devine, Scarlett, Donley, Abbott, Hall, Veliz etc that can be placed in the squad next season. They won't all make it, but the sheer numbers means that some will and our squad will therefore be bigger.

As you and I have done to death, we don't need another Yang or Vuskovic that use the non-homegrown quota as they haven't completed 2 years at the club. However, from 2027, we can do that every year as guys like Bergval and Gray vacate the space and we start seeing a bunch of club trained emerge. A couple a year from that point would be amazing, especially if we build a reputation for kids getting a chance to succeed or fail fast at our club.
 
Muttley said:
I think you can buy a 21-25 year old and be more than short term focused. Obviously, if they are non-homegrown then you have to find some space in that part of the quota.

As I've said before, we absolutely do have some wriggle room to build this squad bigger though. We have Phillips completing his 2 years but still being U21. We have Keeley becoming club trained. We have Devine, Scarlett, Donley, Abbott, Hall, Veliz etc that can be placed in the squad next season. They won't all make it, but the sheer numbers means that some will and our squad will therefore be bigger.

As you and I have done to death, we don't need another Yang or Vuskovic that use the non-homegrown quota as they haven't completed 2 years at the club. However, from 2027, we can do that every year as guys like Bergval and Gray vacate the space and we start seeing a bunch of club trained emerge. A couple a year from that point would be amazing, especially if we build a reputation for kids getting a chance to succeed or fail fast at our club.
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That’s the bit I’m really frustrated at Paratici for
He has been brilliant for a lot of things but all his youth buys are overseas players
And the biggest money went on the man child that is Brian Gil
Of we had split that money over a couple more HG kids it would have helped us now
 
Muttley said:
I think you can buy a 21-25 year old and be more than short term focused. Obviously, if they are non-homegrown then you have to find some space in that part of the quota.

As I've said before, we absolutely do have some wriggle room to build this squad bigger though. We have Phillips completing his 2 years but still being U21. We have Keeley becoming club trained. We have Devine, Scarlett, Donley, Abbott, Hall, Veliz etc that can be placed in the squad next season. They won't all make it, but the sheer numbers means that some will and our squad will therefore be bigger.

As you and I have done to death, we don't need another Yang or Vuskovic that use the non-homegrown quota as they haven't completed 2 years at the club. However, from 2027, we can do that every year as guys like Bergval and Gray vacate the space and we start seeing a bunch of club trained emerge. A couple a year from that point would be amazing, especially if we build a reputation for kids getting a chance to succeed or fail fast at our club.
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Yeah, wasn't saying it should be all short term focus. But players more capable of doing a job short term too. Them also being signings that make sense medium and long term too is pretty much a non-negotiable unless loans/very cheap.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
That’s the bit I’m really frustrated at Paratici for
He has been brilliant for a lot of things but all his youth buys are overseas players
And the biggest money went on the man child that is Brian Gil
Of we had split that money over a couple more HG kids it would have helped us now
Click to expand...

Double edged for me. I don't like slating players that I know my club never gave a fair crack of the whip to. Gil only ever got 6 starts for our club and they certainly weren't in a run of games. We have no right to even judge them. Gil seems to be doing just fine in La Liga and I think I noticed the Spanish manager paying attention to him.

I do take your point though. We definitely don't have Fabio players who are U21 and free picks in UEFA B-list beefing up this current squad.
 
That's all well and good.
But don't forget we MIGHT choose to have ~4 players who are only listed for non-European games, who take up a lot of the games in the PL and cups and then leave Europe to others. The Cheatski model. As a 'normal' size squad cannot cope with all these games, as injuries inevitably arrive.
 
Muttley said:
Double edged for me. I don't like slating players that I know my club never gave a fair crack of the whip to. Gil only ever got 6 starts for our club and they certainly weren't in a run of games. We have no right to even judge them. Gil seems to be doing just fine in La Liga and I think I noticed the Spanish manager paying attention to him.

I do take your point though. We definitely don't have Fabio players who are U21 and free picks in UEFA B-list beefing up this current squad.
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Gil has never worked on his on his physicality
It’s a minimum requirement in this league, being proportionately strong
That should have been 50% of his focus and then addd in that he was always loaned to Spain… that’s a guy that doesn’t wanna be here
Bad bad signing
 
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