Squad

[Bullet]

Perhaps this could go into the ENIC thread, but then it would devolve into Levy vs Saudi vs Randy Lerner.

When considering how well our squad has developed and will develop during the next 5 years, we need to ponder how our transfer costs have been going recently AND consider how well Spurs might recruit players over the next 5 years.

We need to appreciate just how rich we are and how much headroom we have to spend, IF IF IF sterner financial constraints are truly brought in next year. I know, it's always "next year".

Therefore I've written out a Cann table for NET transfer spend over last 5 years, taken from https://www.football365.com/news/transfers-premier-league-five-year-net-spend-man-utd-man-city

£m
800 CHE
790
780
770
760
750
740
730
720
710
700
690
680
670
660
650
640
630
620
610
600
590
580
570
560
550 MNU
540
530
520
510
500
490
480
470 ARS
460 TOT
450
440
430
420
410
400
390
380
370 NEW
360
350
340
330
320
310
300
290
280 WHU
270
260
250 LIV
240
230
220 NFO AST
210
200
190
180
170
160
150 CRY
140 MNC
130
120 FUL BOU
110 IPS
100 BRE
90
80
70
60 SOU
50
40 BRI
30
20 LEI
10 WOL

Just look at the Cheats! Can you even be bothered to scroll that far? Cheats gonna cheat.
Look at Emirates Marketing Project, much lower than you might expect.
Look at Brighton, incredible sales work.
Look at Liverpool, why are they so low and does it mean they have cash stashed?
Our spend level is sustainable at nearly £100m net per season and that gives me great hope for the next 5 years.

 

[Raziel]

Perhaps this could go into the ENIC thread, but then it would devolve into Levy vs Saudi vs Randy Lerner.

When considering how well our squad has developed and will develop during the next 5 years, we need to ponder how our transfer costs have been going recently AND consider how well Spurs might recruit players over the next 5 years.

We need to appreciate just how rich we are and how much headroom we have to spend, IF IF IF sterner financial constraints are truly brought in next year. I know, it's always "next year".

Therefore I've written out a Cann table for NET transfer spend over last 5 years, taken from https://www.football365.com/news/transfers-premier-league-five-year-net-spend-man-utd-man-city

£m
800 CHE
790
780
770
760
750
740
730
720
710
700
690
680
670
660
650
640
630
620
610
600
590
580
570
560
550 MNU
540
530
520
510
500
490
480
470 ARS
460 TOT
450
440
430
420
410
400
390
380
370 NEW
360
350
340
330
320
310
300
290
280 WHU
270
260
250 LIV
240
230
220 NFO AST
210
200
190
180
170
160
150 CRY
140 MNC
130
120 FUL BOU
110 IPS
100 BRE
90
80
70
60 SOU
50
40 BRI
30
20 LEI
10 WOL

Just look at the Cheats! Can you even be bothered to scroll that far? Cheats gonna cheat.
Look at Emirates Marketing Project, much lower than you might expect.
Look at Brighton, incredible sales work.
Look at Liverpool, why are they so low and does it mean they have cash stashed?
Our spend level is sustainable at nearly £100m net per season and that gives me great hope for the next 5 years.

We are spending and have headroom to spend more (if we got additional investment) in PSR

Liverpool has been managing their business for some time now, Klopp has commented multiple times that they cannot compete with other clubs in the PL. People forget, the current era of Pools success has to do with a couple of very overpriced sales (Coutinho e.g.) that they managed to convert into great buys, instant impact but does it make them have a model we can't compete with in the future? no, purely on commercials we are competitive with Pool & Arsenal, Chelsea and City don't play by the rules and United is in another league (they would utterly dominate if they ever got their brick together)

 

[braineclipse]

Said earlier this season that we should be patient with judging the summer transfer window until the younger players get some time.

Think we're starting to get really useful performances out of both Bergvall and Gray. Even in the PL and even in roles they're not that familiar with. Great to see.

If they can keep that up, perhaps add Odobert and Moore to the list of young players doing well when back fit our squad is starting to look decent apart from a ridiculous amount of injuries.

Need a bit of luck in the coming weeks with injuries, get some players back before even more break down.

 

[Raziel]

Said earlier this season that we should be patient with judging the summer transfer window until the younger players get some time.

Think we're starting to get really useful performances out of both Bergvall and Gray. Even in the PL and even in roles they're not that familiar with. Great to see.

If they can keep that up, perhaps add Odobert and Moore to the list of young players doing well when back fit our squad is starting to look decent apart from a ridiculous amount of injuries.

Need a bit of luck in the coming weeks with injuries, get some players back before even more break down.

Since start of last season -> Vic, VDV, Dragusin, Udogie, Johnson, Maddison, Solomon, Werner, Gray, Bergvall, Wilson, Solanke, Yang

Out of 13, I'd put 9 in the success bracket, 2 in the unproven yet (Wilson & Yang), and 2 failed (Solomon & Werner, interesting both cost nothing but wages)

At a pure numbers, impact to first team, massive improvement on the period pre 3 years ago.

I really don't think Gray, Bergvall, Dragusin were expected to play as much as they have this season, not great for in year but probably has been a huge boost to their development.

 

[Muttley]

Since start of last season -> Vic, VDV, Dragusin, Udogie, Johnson, Maddison, Solomon, Werner, Gray, Bergvall, Wilson, Solanke, Yang

Out of 13, I'd put 9 in the success bracket, 2 in the unproven yet (Wilson & Yang), and 2 failed (Solomon & Werner, interesting both cost nothing but wages)

At a pure numbers, impact to first team, massive improvement on the period pre 3 years ago.

I really don't think Gray, Bergvall, Dragusin were expected to play as much as they have this season, not great for in year but probably has been a huge boost to their development.

I think Dragusin would have accepted the EL, EFL and FA cup games as guaranteed starter. Then he would have started a couple of league games with knocks and suspensions. He could have easily got close to 20 games without this injury crisis.

The mad stat I saw the other day is that Forster has only started 2 less than Venom.

It does feel like the transfer success rate is improving though.

 

[braineclipse]

Since start of last season -> Vic, VDV, Dragusin, Udogie, Johnson, Maddison, Solomon, Werner, Gray, Bergvall, Wilson, Solanke, Yang

Out of 13, I'd put 9 in the success bracket, 2 in the unproven yet (Wilson & Yang), and 2 failed (Solomon & Werner, interesting both cost nothing but wages)

At a pure numbers, impact to first team, massive improvement on the period pre 3 years ago.

I really don't think Gray, Bergvall, Dragusin were expected to play as much as they have this season, not great for in year but probably has been a huge boost to their development.

Still early on Gray and Bergvall, but very positive signs so far. But yes, a very good looking track record in recent years.

If we keep that up good things will happen.

 

[Muttley]

good things will happen

I genuinely believe this. We need to say it more often

 

[metalgear]

Perhaps this could go into the ENIC thread, but then it would devolve into Levy vs Saudi vs Randy Lerner.

When considering how well our squad has developed and will develop during the next 5 years, we need to ponder how our transfer costs have been going recently AND consider how well Spurs might recruit players over the next 5 years.

We need to appreciate just how rich we are and how much headroom we have to spend, IF IF IF sterner financial constraints are truly brought in next year. I know, it's always "next year".

Therefore I've written out a Cann table for NET transfer spend over last 5 years, taken from https://www.football365.com/news/transfers-premier-league-five-year-net-spend-man-utd-man-city

£m
800 CHE
790
780
770
760
750
740
730
720
710
700
690
680
670
660
650
640
630
620
610
600
590
580
570
560
550 MNU
540
530
520
510
500
490
480
470 ARS
460 TOT
450
440
430
420
410
400
390
380
370 NEW
360
350
340
330
320
310
300
290
280 WHU
270
260
250 LIV
240
230
220 NFO AST
210
200
190
180
170
160
150 CRY
140 MNC
130
120 FUL BOU
110 IPS
100 BRE
90
80
70
60 SOU
50
40 BRI
30
20 LEI
10 WOL

Just look at the Cheats! Can you even be bothered to scroll that far? Cheats gonna cheat.
Look at Emirates Marketing Project, much lower than you might expect.
Look at Brighton, incredible sales work.
Look at Liverpool, why are they so low and does it mean they have cash stashed?
Our spend level is sustainable at nearly £100m net per season and that gives me great hope for the next 5 years.

now do wages

 

[Raziel]

Perhaps this could go into the ENIC thread, but then it would devolve into Levy vs Saudi vs Randy Lerner.

When considering how well our squad has developed and will develop during the next 5 years, we need to ponder how our transfer costs have been going recently AND consider how well Spurs might recruit players over the next 5 years.

We need to appreciate just how rich we are and how much headroom we have to spend, IF IF IF sterner financial constraints are truly brought in next year. I know, it's always "next year".

Therefore I've written out a Cann table for NET transfer spend over last 5 years, taken from https://www.football365.com/news/transfers-premier-league-five-year-net-spend-man-utd-man-city

£m
800 CHE
790
780
770
760
750
740
730
720
710
700
690
680
670
660
650
640
630
620
610
600
590
580
570
560
550 MNU
540
530
520
510
500
490
480
470 ARS
460 TOT
450
440
430
420
410
400
390
380
370 NEW
360
350
340
330
320
310
300
290
280 WHU
270
260
250 LIV
240
230
220 NFO AST
210
200
190
180
170
160
150 CRY
140 MNC
130
120 FUL BOU
110 IPS
100 BRE
90
80
70
60 SOU
50
40 BRI
30
20 LEI
10 WOL

Just look at the Cheats! Can you even be bothered to scroll that far? Cheats gonna cheat.
Look at Emirates Marketing Project, much lower than you might expect.
Look at Brighton, incredible sales work.
Look at Liverpool, why are they so low and does it mean they have cash stashed?
Our spend level is sustainable at nearly £100m net per season and that gives me great hope for the next 5 years.

Liverpool & City spent a lot of their base money pre the last five years, and typically do well on sales. i.e. they have good stable squads with players there long term and it's typically 1-2 additions needed per season.

now do wages

So 6th highest, but lets look at that table

- We are closer to Liverpool's wage bill than Liverpool is to Arsenal
- United are a disaster
- Villa is spending beyond their means (92% of turnover on wages)
- And Chelsea despite spending 1.49B (yes that's a B) in players, have their wage bill at 4th (we can hardly call them cheap?)

Lets look at total spend over last 5 years



So 4th highest total spend, 4th highest net spend and 6th highest wages

So hardly the shopping at poundland narrative that seems to be common.

 

[billyiddo]

Arsenal's wage spend dipped below ours for a year or two when they were rebuilding their squad - i expect ours to shoot up, similar to how theirs has, as we press on with our rebuild over the coming seasons

 

[metalgear]

Liverpool & City spent a lot of their base money pre the last five years, and typically do well on sales. i.e. they have good stable squads with players there long term and it's typically 1-2 additions needed per season.



View attachment 18420

So 6th highest, but lets look at that table

- We are closer to Liverpool's wage bill than Liverpool is to Arsenal
- United are a disaster
- Villa is spending beyond their means (92% of turnover on wages)
- And Chelsea despite spending 1.49B (yes that's a B) in players, have their wage bill at 4th (we can hardly call them cheap?)

Lets look at total spend over last 5 years

View attachment 18421

So 4th highest total spend, 4th highest net spend and 6th highest wages

So hardly the shopping at poundland narrative that seems to be common.

so top 5 ought to be possible with the current squad (if ange finds a way to keep them fit)

 

[Raziel]

so top 5 ought to be possible with the current squad (if ange finds a way to keep them fit)

Short answer is yes

Longer answer (the nuance a lot of people/narratives don't do)
- We have had to increase our spend because of needing a full refresh
- Part of that spend is catch up
- Historically we have operated in the 5th/6th spend with 3rd/4th objectives, the increased revenue has allowed us to push that spend closer to 4th.

Either way it debunks the flimflam "we don't spend", "don't back the manager" (those numbers go back 5 years)
- So 5th is probably par
- Not hard to expect higher as every season one or two of top clubs have challenges (Us and United this season, Chelsea and United last)

It does put some pressure on the manager that regardless, a outside of top 8 finish is really unacceptable

 

[Lemonade Money]

Arsenal's wage spend dipped below ours for a year or two when they were rebuilding their squad - i expect ours to shoot up, similar to how theirs has, as we press on with our rebuild over the coming seasons

And offer improved terms to the players we want to lock down

 

[Finney Is Back]

Liverpool & City spent a lot of their base money pre the last five years, and typically do well on sales. i.e. they have good stable squads with players there long term and it's typically 1-2 additions needed per season.



View attachment 18420

So 6th highest, but lets look at that table

- We are closer to Liverpool's wage bill than Liverpool is to Arsenal
- United are a disaster
- Villa is spending beyond their means (92% of turnover on wages)
- And Chelsea despite spending 1.49B (yes that's a B) in players, have their wage bill at 4th (we can hardly call them cheap?)

Lets look at total spend over last 5 years

View attachment 18421

So 4th highest total spend, 4th highest net spend and 6th highest wages

So hardly the shopping at poundland narrative that seems to be common.

But West Ham, with the 9th highest wage spend, are closer to us in 6th than we are to 5th placed Liverpool.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Liverpool & City spent a lot of their base money pre the last five years, and typically do well on sales. i.e. they have good stable squads with players there long term and it's typically 1-2 additions needed per season.



View attachment 18420

So 6th highest, but lets look at that table

- We are closer to Liverpool's wage bill than Liverpool is to Arsenal
- United are a disaster
- Villa is spending beyond their means (92% of turnover on wages)
- And Chelsea despite spending 1.49B (yes that's a B) in players, have their wage bill at 4th (we can hardly call them cheap?)

Lets look at total spend over last 5 years

View attachment 18421

So 4th highest total spend, 4th highest net spend and 6th highest wages

So hardly the shopping at poundland narrative that seems to be common.

Those wages aren’t the ones publicly available via companies house
They look like the ones that get put out by Capology
But that’s a site that seems to just guess wages
That’s not to say it’s wrong bit there is a huge delta between what the club declare and what those sites show

 

[Chrissivad]

Our wages will be low at the moment.

We have sold or released a few players on big contracts and brought in some youngsters that we hope to develop.

Their wages will be a lot lower, and as they progress they will get better contracts. It's just we are at the start of a cycle.

 

[Muttley]

Those wages aren’t the ones publicly available via companies house
They look like the ones that get put out by Capology
But that’s a site that seems to just guess wages
That’s not to say it’s wrong bit there is a huge delta between what the club declare and what those sites show

Our wages will be low at the moment.

We have sold or released a few players on big contracts and brought in some youngsters that we hope to develop.

Their wages will be a lot lower, and as they progress they will get better contracts. It's just we are at the start of a cycle.

We'll never really know the players OTE - On Target Earnings = Base + Bonus. I guess we eventually get to see the aggregated squad numbers of both though. I heard that Spurs had moved to the model where bonuses form a much bigger part of OTE as compared to other PL teams.

I think it goes with the philosophy that we want to only encourage players who want to really be part of the collective at Spurs and win-together / lose-together. With every place in the PL being worth a couple of million to the club, you can see why these players are massively motivated. If they can get from 12th to 5th by the end of the season, that will be a £14m prize and part of that will go to the players.

 

[braineclipse]

Arsenal's wage spend dipped below ours for a year or two when they were rebuilding their squad - i expect ours to shoot up, similar to how theirs has, as we press on with our rebuild over the coming seasons

Fully agreed. And I think this approach makes sense. Leave us with enough wiggle room financially and with players on relatively speaking lower wages that we can then get on new long deals with higher wages when/if they step up and become even more important players for us.

 

[Muttley]

Fully agreed. And I think this approach makes sense. Leave us with enough wiggle room financially and with players on relatively speaking lower wages that we can then get on new long deals with higher wages when/if they step up and become even more important players for us.

It's the right approach, albeit double edged in itself.

Obviously, if the collective don't progress together then the best of the best can run down their contracts and move on in this model. They have runway in their salary to move to a fair few clubs. I have a feeling some new contracts will be handed out earlier than normal in some cases e.g. Gray.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We'll never really know the players OTE - On Target Earnings = Base + Bonus. I guess we eventually get to see the aggregated squad numbers of both though. I heard that Spurs had moved to the model where bonuses form a much bigger part of OTE as compared to other PL teams.

I think it goes with the philosophy that we want to only encourage players who want to really be part of the collective at Spurs and win-together / lose-together. With every place in the PL being worth a couple of million to the club, you can see why these players are massively motivated. If they can get from 12th to 5th by the end of the season, that will be a £14m prize and part of that will go to the players.

My issue with any numbers is that if they don’t start form the salaries given in the limited company accounts they are always speculation