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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

Baleforce said:
thats fair, but I'd never ask a last man to do anything other than row z, we play in a way that involves risk, he was a victim of that
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Sure, and from that perspective we leave our centre backs exposed in that way many times every single game. That is what they're expected to be able to deal with. Ange obviously asks them to do a lot more than row z in those situations.

Yes, he was a "victim" of that. But he was also a victim of his inability to control the ball and then the split second decision to pull the man down.

It's not a bug in the system, it's a feature. It comes with risk and fudging up is fine as long as it doesn't happen too often.

All approaches come with risks, there's no way of playing without risk and ultimately the players will be the "victims" of that no matter what.
 
Baleforce said:
I like Reggie too, but it happens on both sides, Johnson regularly goes missing defensively.
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Not true at all. Johnson defends against his fullback as he is instructed to. Our tactics will sometimes instead use Kulu to defend against the opponent's fullback, when this happens the winger will sometimes stay wide and reasonably high up the pitch to aid the counter attack if we win back possession in our own third.
 
Baleforce said:
He was exposed.

He was the only outfield player in our half, receiving a ball under pressure with no open teammate within 25 yards.

The 9 players ahead of him let him down badly, that red was on the whole team.
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As a youngster I was told "if in doubt kick it out", it wasn't a good pass to him but you have to be able to deal with difficult situations. We played the defensive systems for 3/4 years and still got caught out frequently.
 
IulianSteaua said:
I hope Ange has the balls to play Maddison-Bentancur-Kulusevski în midfield from now on. It is his find, all 3 are ballers and with them we can control the ball. Never saw Kulusevski în midfield, he found it, it only works with the other 2 ballers next to him. Bentancur has such a critical position, as he is the only baller that has defensive duties too and I think he is capable of handling it. He can be our Rodri. He is more technically gifted than him.
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No doubt Ange has the balls for it. He's already showed that clear as day for all to see.

Bissouma can be a baller too, he is when on his game.

I rate Bentancur very highly and I'm happy to see him getting game time in that role. How good he can be there time will tell. Rodri comparisons are way premature.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
Neither Son or Johnson are giving our fullbacks much protection, whether that is on orders I don't know but Johnson certainly put in a good shift defensively on Sunday.
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They defend against their opposing fullback as they are instructed to. Occasionally our attacking midfielder is instead used to defend against the opposing fullback, in which case the wide player will stay wide and remain higher up the pitch.
 
Just like the 0-1 defeat against Arsenal didn't suddenly make us a terrible team (I believe they're statistically the best defence in the Prem so it's no surprise that they made us look toothless), so the 3-0 kicking of ManU doesn't make us world-beaters. I'm still concerned that Ange's system has been found out by the better teams and coaches, but if anyone has the balls to stick it out and make it work, it's him.

Still, we've had a timely couple of results to get the players back on track, just when it seemed that they'd sold out (that doesn't seem right as an opposite of "bought in") against Coventry.
 
FatBloke said:
Just like the 0-1 defeat against Arsenal didn't suddenly make us a terrible team (I believe they're statistically the best defence in the Prem so it's no surprise that they made us look toothless), so the 3-0 kicking of ManU doesn't make us world-beaters. I'm still concerned that Ange's system has been found out by the better teams and coaches, but if anyone has the balls to stick it out and make it work, it's him.

Still, we've had a timely couple of results to get the players back on track, just when it seemed that they'd sold out (that doesn't seem right as an opposite of "bought in") against Coventry.
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Uh we’re level with Arsenal on the defensive numbers and it’s pool who are the best
 
Baleforce said:
He was exposed.

He was the only outfield player in our half, receiving a ball under pressure with no open teammate within 25 yards.

The 9 players ahead of him let him down badly, that red was on the whole team.
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Have you been watching us the last two years? Actually you have and I know you have so you are on the wind up again.

It's a mistake, and we as fans chastise, but the boss doesn't. He wants the players to feel they can make a mistake and recover from it. Or do you not remember the emerson lead kamikaze defending last season?
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
As a youngster I was told "if in doubt kick it out", it wasn't a good pass to him but you have to be able to deal with difficult situations. We played the defensive systems for 3/4 years and still got caught out frequently.
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If you watch it back it's not a terrible pass, but he misses the first contact and it slips away from him. A rationale settled centre half, given the quality of the opposition, would try to recover legitimately, and if we concede should have the presence to realise he's better value on the pitch and a goal down than 10 men after 8 minutes.

The reality is he's young, he's not played much and he's a fair way from having the necessary confidence to play our way..... Yet. He's very highly rated and intelligent so with time (manager affords this, fans less so) he can become a power house for us.
 
Surfless said:
Have you been watching us the last two years? Actually you have and I know you have so you are on the wind up again.

It's a mistake, and we as fans chastise, but the boss doesn't. He wants the players to feel they can make a mistake and recover from it. Or do you not remember the emerson lead kamikaze defending last season?
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Emerson was a hero last season imo, stepped into CD due to injuries and kept the train rolling, we went to brick when Romero and VDV were available again.

I have been watching, and moaning about the lack of basic football principles for about 2 years. You can't play like that in the PL and the CL.
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
Neither Son or Johnson are giving our fullbacks much protection, whether that is on orders I don't know but Johnson certainly put in a good shift defensively on Sunday.
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His post match interview he stated that in training Ange emphasized the threat United would have is the counter, and that everyone needed to be aware, and yes, it's the most I've seen Johnson defend, one he cleared a ball in the box, great awareness

DeanoAustin said:
I thought we were sensational first half in all but goals. Similar to the Leicester game in many respects but even better. United were absolutely atrocious but much of that was down to how well we played. However...

The way United played really suited us. As good as yesterday was, it doesn't dispel any of the misgivings I have about Ange because United were dumb in how they approached the game and even dumber in how they executed whatever plan ETH had. That doesn't negate how good we were but we'll have much sterner tests and they will define how successful Ange can be here.
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That is an utter hindsight statement, United is exactly the type of side we are worse suited for, they don't care about possession, happy in that mid-block, habit of raising their game for top opponents, they are best suited for counter/transitions and have the pace/individual quality to hurt you. That first half was extraordinary, if you didn't know you would have said we were playing a side two leagues below.

I don't think Ange has anything to prove on the system on a per game scenario, the sterner test is consistency, this system works, and when it works well it's capable of results like against United. Can we get this to work more games than not? can we get this to play out in a cup run?
 
Surfless said:
If you watch it back it's not a terrible pass, but he misses the first contact and it slips away from him. A rationale settled centre half, given the quality of the opposition, would try to recover legitimately, and if we concede should have the presence to realise he's better value on the pitch and a goal down than 10 men after 8 minutes.

The reality is he's young, he's not played much and he's a fair way from having the necessary confidence to play our way..... Yet. He's very highly rated and intelligent so with time (manager affords this, fans less so) he can become a power house for us.
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Sums up my feelingS as well.
 
Raziel said:
His post match interview he stated that in training Ange emphasized the threat United would have is the counter, and that everyone needed to be aware, and yes, it's the most I've seen Johnson defend, one he cleared a ball in the box, great awareness



That is an utter hindsight statement, United is exactly the type of side we are worse suited for, they don't care about possession, happy in that mid-block, habit of raising their game for top opponents, they are best suited for counter/transitions and have the pace/individual quality to hurt you. That first half was extraordinary, if you didn't know you would have said we were playing a side two leagues below.

I don't think Ange has anything to prove on the system on a per game scenario, the sterner test is consistency, this system works, and when it works well it's capable of results like against United. Can we get this to work more games than not? can we get this to play out in a cup run?
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Not hindsight at all. I had said to a couple of my mates before the game that if United are open we could smash them, if they play against us like they did in the cup final against City, they would probably beat us. It’d be a very brave United manager who would play like that at OT v Spurs though.

As it was, United were a mess, very open and coughed up possession time and again. It was a great performance by us, and we contributed to their poor play in a big way but the game proved little in the scheme of things for me.

Let’s see how we go against teams who set up to stop us and hit us on the counter.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Not hindsight at all. I had said to a couple of my mates before the game that if United are open we could smash them, if they play against us like they did in the cup final against City, they would probably beat us. It’d be a very brave United manager who would play like that at OT v Spurs though.

As it was, United were a mess, very open and coughed up possession time and again. It was a great performance by us, and we contributed to their poor play in a big way but the game proved little in the scheme of things for me.

Let’s see how we go against teams who set up to stop us and hit us on the counter.
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They didn’t cough up possession … it was won by us
 
Bedfordspurs said:
They didn’t cough up possession … it was won by us
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We contributed to it for sure but some of their play and passing was abysmal. And they didn't seem to have a plan for how to play through our press.

When we lose, the reactions can be extreme. I feel people are getting a little carried away with themselves on the back on Sunday. It was a great win, we absolutely dingdonged them, we were a great watch. But how good we really are won't be defined solely by Sunday. It'll be whether we can now reproduce that sort of performance against teams that set up to really frustrate us and teams that are better than us. As you said to me earlier in the season, let's see where we are after a dozen or 15 games.
 
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