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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

billyiddo said:
Our recruitment team was virtually non existent and it's output was diabolical right through from when we moved on from Mitchell, up until we appointed Paratici - none of the head coaches during this period can be held accountable for what we done or didn't do in the market, the club failed them by not having a proper transfer department in place. I'm sure they would all have loved to have seen the benefits of the type of set up we have in place now, however they had to make do with Hitchens black book of contacts from French football
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Agreed! Mourinho, however, gets no sympathy from me because one of the main whispers he passed up the chain was that he could do much better with the available squad than Poch was doing. clown shoe. People conveniently forget that we were in the last 16 of the CL abnd were resoundingly thumped by Leipzig. Yes he had injuries to deal with, but I remember a certain previous manager getting to a CL Final without his star striker and a few others.
 
thfcsteff said:
Laugh as you will, it certainly was not a deal that particular manager pushed for. I understand what Paratici was doing (because it was his job to make those sorts of club signings) but Spence was not signed by Conte, so...
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All deals are done through a combination of people
Pleat talked about it on last weeks VFTL pod
We have a weird way in football that anything good is credited to the person who is most favoured and anything negative goes to the other people
 
thfcsteff said:
My single biggest disappointment at Conte was that he stuck around and took it. I genuinely thought that if he did not get exactly what he wanted, he'd walk. Once it became clear that he was going to hang in despite not getting what he specifically wanted, he ceased to be the guy I thought he was and instead became another money-sucking trumper. As for the disgraceful way he tried to throw everyone under the bus at the end, well, the only allowance I'd ever give him is he was still grieving the loss of Ventrone...
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Said the same thing
Of he is the big brave man of principles then show us
But instead he showed he was a smart man who wanted his pay cheque
 
Bedfordspurs said:
All deals are done through a combination of people
Pleat talked about it on last weeks VFTL pod
We have a weird way in football that anything good is credited to the person who is most favoured and anything negative goes to the other people
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Indeed, but I think we know there are some who hold more sway in certain deals than others. No-one will ever convince me that Poch was 100% satisfied with Vincent Janssen and Nkoudou to name two.
 
thfcsteff said:
My single biggest disappointment at Conte was that he stuck around and took it. I genuinely thought that if he did not get exactly what he wanted, he'd walk. Once it became clear that he was going to hang in despite not getting what he specifically wanted, he ceased to be the guy I thought he was and instead became another money-sucking trumper. As for the disgraceful way he tried to throw everyone under the bus at the end, well, the only allowance I'd ever give him is he was still grieving the loss of Ventrone...
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Conte knew he was always found out in this country. He had spent too much of his life in Italy at both club and international level and had no real grasp the PL especially when you haven't got the quality of player he inherited at Chelsea. He did well re-organising them into that 3-5-2 and then it all fell apart as every manager got wise to his basic tactics. When he joined us, he had just won Serie A playing a 3-5-2, so he comes to Spurs and ditches it and plays a 3-4-3 with guys like Hojbjerg and Moura. He couldn't see how an old quality player like Perisic would never cut it as a wing-back in the PL. Different animal to Serie A. He was lucky that he managed us in a poor season

There was no way his targets like De Vrij and Lukaku would have helped our cause. As you say, he just milked our financial model and went crawling back to Italy. He should never leave again.
 
How can we have a discussion about previous managers especially Poch and whether "they were backed or not" and fail to mention (what i'd call) the Jack Greilish debacle :D
 
Muttley said:
Conte knew he was always found out in this country. He had spent too much of his life in Italy at both club and international level and had no real grasp the PL especially when you haven't got the quality of player he inherited at Chelsea. He did well re-organising them into that 3-5-2 and then it all fell apart as every manager got wise to his basic tactics. When he joined us, he had just won Serie A playing a 3-5-2, so he comes to Spurs and ditches it and plays a 3-4-3 with guys like Hojbjerg and Moura. He couldn't see how an old quality player like Perisic would never cut it as a wing-back in the PL. Different animal to Serie A. He was lucky that he managed us in a poor season

There was no way his targets like De Vrij and Lukaku would have helped our cause. As you say, he just milked our financial model and went crawling back to Italy. He should never leave again.
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Conte is a very stubborn manager (like some others one might say) but when it worked boy it fudging worked!
 
thfcsteff said:
He didn't want Clarke, and I believe Sess was also a 'club' signing...N'dombele and Lo Celso should not count against him. He had no time to work with them and, as you said too, there is every chance he'd have found the player in N'dombele. Your last sentence says everything; it is indisputable IMO...I know you and I have also raised the Grealish debacle before...lastly, if anyone wants to speculate as to Poch not necessarily getting who he wanted, look no further than Mane and Winaldjum. I remember my mate thinking we'd lose Poch because Mitchell walked in virtual disgust at our refusal to pay the wages for those two...
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I've been told by somebody that I really trust and who was likely to know that Pochettino wanted us to sign Sessegnon a year earlier than we did (he wanted to gradually ease him in replacing Danny Rose).

Bottom line is that our recruitment structure was a mess back then. It was something that was massively under valued and under invested in and, for a while, we basically ended up reaping what we sowed. Whether that was just through basic negligence or due to stadium costs spiraling out of control and us having to penny pinch everywhere possible I don't know (though the fact that we realised a whole bunch of Champions league revenue earlier than expected indicates the former to me). I still really struggle to comprehend how somebody like Hitchen could end up as head of recruitment for a club the size of THFC.

The good news is this has clearly now been addressed. I have said many, many times that Paratici was an absolute godsend for this club. I'll admit that Levy did a great job in recruiting him to fix the mess that our youth, scouting and recruitment structures had become in the few years leading up to that.

Fingers crossed the lessons have been firmly learned and we continue our journey onwards and upwards.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
All deals are done through a combination of people
Pleat talked about it on last weeks VFTL pod
We have a weird way in football that anything good is credited to the person who is most favoured and anything negative goes to the other people
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Pleaty was the one that had recommend Clarke. To be fair to Pleat - Clarke is now showing that he is a good player.
 
Raziel said:
Tielemans was one, and as @Bedfordspurs said, Hoddle (amongst other ex players) has confirmed/was adamant that Poch was offered players that window.

Personally, don't think it would made a difference, Poch's big choices that he got (later) were GLC, Ndombele, Clark & Sessegnon, literally/statistically the worse window the club has ever had.

We seemingly are better organized/run now, and the balance between club & manager seems right for now (none of this club signing flimflam)
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Poch did not choose Clarke or Sess, both were club signings. Ndombele and Lo Celso were ones he was interested in.
 
braineclipse said:
I think it's really good that we have both options (Two of the players you mentioned or Kulusevski and Maddison together in midfield). We've been fantastic at times this season with the Maddison Kulusevski lineup.

Sarr and Bissouma did play just about every league game when fit last season and we were still vulnerable.

Ange is again showing flexibility (within a system). And that's a good thing.
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I think your last sentence is key. It doesn't matter who he decides to start with, because at this level, that should be based on who he thinks the best players will be for a particular game and coaches will know that better than any football fan. The important thing is for him to recognise when it is not working and changing it quickly and decisively. He failed to do that against Brighton but did so to great effect against Wham. As I say I hope that is a sign that he is going to be more proactive and flexible. If he is then I think he could be a really good manager for us.

Saturday left me more hopeful than I have been for ages albeit vs a poor WHAM team. Our team defending though needs to be worked on imho. I watched City on Sunday and saw that, although their high defensive line gets breached from time to time, the whole team fight like dogs to win the ball back when there is a turnover. So Madders and Kulu need to work harder to win the ball back when we are not in possession. Which is basically what Sarr did.
 
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thfcsteff said:
He didn't want Clarke, and I believe Sess was also a 'club' signing...N'dombele and Lo Celso should not count against him. He had no time to work with them and, as you said too, there is every chance he'd have found the player in N'dombele. Your last sentence says everything; it is indisputable IMO...I know you and I have also raised the Grealish debacle before...lastly, if anyone wants to speculate as to Poch not necessarily getting who he wanted, look no further than Mane and Winaldjum. I remember my mate thinking we'd lose Poch because Mitchell walked in virtual disgust at our refusal to pay the wages for those two...
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I think it's very unlikely that he would've found the player in N'dombele. He's been through a pile of managers and none have managed to do it, it's a stretch to think Poch would be any different.
 
DubSpur said:
I think it's very unlikely that he would've found the player in N'dombele. He's been through a pile of managers and none have managed to do it, it's a stretch to think Poch would be any different.
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I have seen a lot of players over the years [ SOME GOOD, SOME GREAT AND SOME POOR], N,dombele was one of the [ especially for what we paid for him] overated/overhyped players i have seen in our shirt.
 
parklane1 said:
I have seen a lot of players over the years [ SOME GOOD, SOME GREAT AND SOME POOR], N,dombele was one of the [ especially for what we paid for him] overated/overhyped players i have seen in our shirt.
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Comes down to being the laziest player I've ever seen. All the other great attributes he has meant nothing because of that.
 
Robspur12 said:
I think your last sentence is key. It doesn't matter who he decides to start with, because at this level, that should be based on who he thinks the best players will be for a particular game and coaches will know that better than any football fan. The important thing is for him to recognise when it is not working and changing it quickly and decisively. He failed to do that against Brighton but did so to great effect against Wham. As I say I hope that is a sign that he is going to be more proactive and flexible. If he is then I think he could be a really good manager for us.

Saturday left me more hopeful than I have been for ages albeit vs a poor WHAM team. Our team defending though needs to be worked on imho. I watched City on Sunday and saw that, although their high defensive line gets breached from time to time, the whole teams fights like dogs to win the ball back when there is a turnover. So Madders and Kulu need to work harder to win the ball back when we are not in possession. Which is basically what Sarr did.
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It was quite ironic the contrasting mirror image of our opening 20min second half collapse against Brighton and our opening 20 minutes second half destruction of West Ham.

Perhaps the pace of the event just all played out too quickly to react/adjust... although it's fair to say that's what managers are paid for.

In Lopetegui's case he actually had sub changes ready at 2-1 and they didn't come on until 4-1!....

Life comes at you fast sometimes
 
parklane1 said:
I have seen a lot of players over the years [ SOME GOOD, SOME GREAT AND SOME POOR], N,dombele was one of the [ especially for what we paid for him] overated/overhyped players i have seen in our shirt.
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He had ridiculous amounts of talent. Nice and two footed, could receive the ball in tight spaces and beat players from a standing start on both sides. He also had really good vision and pass execution. He actually started well for us, though showed quite early that you could kick him out of the game. He then seemed to quicky lose any appetite for working hard.
 
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