Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

[SkipRat]

I didn't read all those posts.
If you're happy to point me in the directions of all the posts where you were referred to you as a racist bleep i'm happy to go through them all one by one and make my comments as necessary.
Might take me a while so bear with me, but i'm happy to do it

Ignores the posts in this thread insinuating the type of person I am, just for calling levy a bald gnome.

F*cking hilarious

 

[glorygloryeze]

Ignores the posts in this thread insinuating the type of person I am, just for calling levy a bald gnome.

F*cking hilarious

I go in and out of this forum often quite randomly...it can be days or weeks when i don't check or login etc

I was posting today and saw your post about Levy (not someone i particularly like btw) and pointed out how unnecessary your labelling of him was to the point you were trying to make (his poor performance in your view).

As i say, if you 'cheekily' post like that, don't be surprised people give you similar labels 'cheekily'

 

[DubSpur]

Making up more BS up?

Pretty common for you. Throwing tantrums, calling people racist c**ts, for wiping the floor with as you can only debate like a three year old.
You are the pettiest child on this forum... You cry like a baby at everyone who doesn't think like you and you have never backed up any of your claims against me.

Now you are making unfounded accusations again.

Funny how you claimed you were going to ignore me, but I am still living rent free in your head.

And yes, the bald headed gnome is at fault for this club to be in the position it is in and the mess of a team we have right now that is still going to take another 2-3 seasons to address fully.

And?

Debate the argument not the person. It's that simple.

It's that simple you can't do it?

 

[Muttley]

My view on Ange is that we can't really make a decision on him until we can see where he can plateau as a Spurs manager.

I have a feeling that will be about this point next season. If we get off to a flyer, find a more consistent rhythm to the one we're seeing now, and have added quality again in the summer then he'll be trusted. If the plateau is where we are now, or just a bit higher, that won't be good enough for club or fans.

For me, it is that simple. Talking of letting him go now is premature in my opinion. He will have the most expensively assembled Spurs squad ever and needs to be given time with it. He shouldn't have any complaints if Munn lets him go some time in season 3, especially if it is in the second half of the season or the end of it.

 

[Raziel]

My view on Ange is that we can't really make a decision on him until we can see where he can plateau as a Spurs manager.

I have a feeling that will be about this point next season. If we get off to a flyer, find a more consistent rhythm to the one we're seeing now, and have added quality again in the summer then he'll be trusted. If the plateau is where we are now, or just a bit higher, that won't be good enough for club or fans.

For me, it is that simple. Talking of letting him go now is premature in my opinion. He will have the most expensively assembled Spurs squad ever and needs to be given time with it. He shouldn't have any complaints if Munn lets him go some time in season 3, especially if it is in the second half of the season or the end of it.

Exactly, don't think there is any conversation to be had this season

This feels like it will be a bit of an up and down season, if Chelsea continues to improve top 4 is likely a step to far (this season) even if we were a little more consistent.

The judgement Ange is going to need to make is on the cup runs, we have rotated heavy so far in them, but they are critical for his long term success, falling out a cup with a B team against opponents we would be expected to win against would raise questions.

We have a decent squad, the next stage is improving the first 11, another big signing or two in summer would be a good step

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

My view on Ange is that we can't really make a decision on him until we can see where he can plateau as a Spurs manager.

I have a feeling that will be about this point next season. If we get off to a flyer, find a more consistent rhythm to the one we're seeing now, and have added quality again in the summer then he'll be trusted. If the plateau is where we are now, or just a bit higher, that won't be good enough for club or fans.

For me, it is that simple. Talking of letting him go now is premature in my opinion. He will have the most expensively assembled Spurs squad ever and needs to be given time with it. He shouldn't have any complaints if Munn lets him go some time in season 3, especially if it is in the second half of the season or the end of it.

Too add. The vast majority of successful managers have a plan A, and their plan B is to do plan A better. Furthermore those successful managers eg Pep Klopp Arteta (Arteta not successful but you get what I'm saying) took a good while to get their teams where they wanted (ie not 60 games).

So we have a group hug and hold it together in hope.

 

[Muttley]

Too add. The vast majority of successful managers have a plan A, and their plan B is to do plan A better. Furthermore those successful managers eg Pep Klopp Arteta (Arteta not successful but you get what I'm saying) took a good while to get their teams where they wanted (ie not 60 games).

So we have a group hug and hold it together in hope.

It's a great call. We don't really have to call it A, B, C etc. I guess it's more about what happens in the Ange playbook when certain things happen or are expected to happen on the pitch. I think that is the frustration of some, including myself, when you see games like yesterday. It felt like the obvious research on the opposition wasn't done. When certain things happened, it felt like the hands would stay in the pockets and nothing would be changed. That gives the "my way or the highway" signals from Ange which is OK, unless you lose in the manner we did. Then you're fair game for the searching questions to be asked.

Pep, Klopp, Arteta all know that as well. That being said, we've all seen how Arteta changes things around to get results in an ugly way. He's not scared to compromise a few philosophical beliefs to grab every point going.

Part of assessing Ange will be seeing whether the frequency of bad days at the office reduce. They'll never go away obviously. It's also about seeing what he is prepared to do in his playbook to win trophies.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

It's a great call. We don't really have to call it A, B, C etc. I guess it's more about what happens in the Ange playbook when certain things happen or are expected to happen on the pitch. I think that is the frustration of some, including myself, when you see games like yesterday. It felt like the obvious research on the opposition wasn't done. When certain things happened, it felt like the hands would stay in the pockets and nothing would be changed. That gives the "my way or the highway" signals from Ange which is OK, unless you lose in the manner we did. Then you're fair game for the searching questions to be asked.

Pep, Klopp, Arteta all know that as well. That being said, we've all seen how Arteta changes things around to get results in an ugly way. He's not scared to compromise a few philosophical beliefs to grab every point going.

Part of assessing Ange will be seeing whether the frequency of bad days at the office reduce. They'll never go away obviously. It's also about seeing what he is prepared to do in his playbook to win trophies.

Artetas philosophy seems to be dont lose at all costs
It’s why they won’t IMO make the next steo because he doesn’t focus on winning
Klopp didn’t change his system
Pep has but over a very very long period and with massive investment in a huge squad that gave each player time or an exit

 

[Muttley]

Artetas philosophy seems to be dont lose at all costs
It’s why they won’t IMO make the next steo because he doesn’t focus on winning
Klopp didn’t change his system
Pep has but over a very very long period and with massive investment in a huge squad that gave each player time or an exit

Klopp did actually tweak his system, especially the midfield. He totally evolved Trent's role in the side and changed things depending on player availability. He never tried to make Jota play like Mane or Firminho, in the same way he didn't with Diaz or Nunez. On paper, it was still a 4-3-3. The interesting big change he tried to make was with Thiago Alcântara. That didn't really work.

Pep has reinvented his system every season. When the other managers think they've figured out how to play against his side, he re-invents it. What he did with the full-backs and how he utilised his centre halves in more forward areas was genius. Then he went back to a good old-fashioned number 9.

I guess the theme here is player transitions and how managers adapt around player strengths. At the moment, it feels like the players are adapting more around the system than vice versa. That could change over time as it has with the other managers.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Klopp did actually tweak his system, especially the midfield. He totally evolved Trent's role in the side and changed things depending on player availability. He never tried to make Jota play like Mane or Firminho, in the same way he didn't with Diaz or Nunez. On paper, it was still a 4-3-3. The interesting big change he tried to make was with Thiago Alcântara. That didn't really work.

Pep has reinvented his system every season. When the other managers think they've figured out how to play against his side, he re-invents it. What he did with the full-backs and how he utilised his centre halves in more forward areas was genius. Then he went back to a good old-fashioned number 9.

I guess the theme here is player transitions and how managers adapt around player strengths. At the moment, it feels like the players are adapting more around the system than vice versa. That could change over time as it has with the other managers.

The theme is time
No one likes it but it all takes time and seasons
Not weeks
And of course spending money to right your wrongs

 

[SkipRat]

I go in and out of this forum often quite randomly...it can be days or weeks when i don't check or login etc

I was posting today and saw your post about Levy (not someone i particularly like btw) and pointed out how unnecessary your labelling of him was to the point you were trying to make (his poor performance in your view).

As i say, if you 'cheekily' post like that, don't be surprised people give you similar labels 'cheekily'

But as I say, it's not being done cheekily, there is avery nasty and toxic group people.

It's disgusting behavour.

If your first argument is to call people racist c**ts, then maybe they need to take a hard look at themselves.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

It's a great call. We don't really have to call it A, B, C etc. I guess it's more about what happens in the Ange playbook when certain things happen or are expected to happen on the pitch. I think that is the frustration of some, including myself, when you see games like yesterday. It felt like the obvious research on the opposition wasn't done. When certain things happened, it felt like the hands would stay in the pockets and nothing would be changed. That gives the "my way or the highway" signals from Ange which is OK, unless you lose in the manner we did. Then you're fair game for the searching questions to be asked.

Pep, Klopp, Arteta all know that as well. That being said, we've all seen how Arteta changes things around to get results in an ugly way. He's not scared to compromise a few philosophical beliefs to grab every point going.

Part of assessing Ange will be seeing whether the frequency of bad days at the office reduce. They'll never go away obviously. It's also about seeing what he is prepared to do in his playbook to win trophies.

Artetas philosophy seems to be dont lose at all costs
It’s why they won’t IMO make the next steo because he doesn’t focus on winning
Klopp didn’t change his system
Pep has but over a very very long period and with massive investment in a huge squad that gave each player time or an exit

Arteta has surprised me, he has elevated Arsenal much further than I ever thought he would. (I still think he isn't a great manager overall though).

I think all he is doing at the moment is showing pragmatism. He spent two seasons proving his team could play great football...and they still came up short. We, and certainly he, know that the margins when City are in town are minute, so he's decided that every point is the most valuable thing on earth and he's playing, at times, that most horrid brand of football to harvest those points. I do think it is a last throw from him. I don't think it will work and wouldn't be surprised if he feels his time is done at Arsenal come the end of the season imo.

 

[Raziel]

Arteta has surprised me, he has elevated Arsenal much further than I ever thought he would. (I still think he isn't a great manager overall though).

I think all he is doing at the moment is showing pragmatism. He spent two seasons proving his team could play great football...and they still came up short. We, and certainly he, know that the margins when City are in town are minute, so he's decided that every point is the most valuable thing on earth and he's playing, at times, that most horrid brand of football to harvest those points. I do think it is a last throw from him. I don't think it will work and wouldn't be surprised if he feels his time is done at Arsenal come the end of the season imo.

While I agree he's gone further than I would ever have guessed, he's got two flaws I don't think will allow him to be elite, first bit is the don't lose first mentality, second is he's still thinks you can win things consistently without an elite striker (false 9 brick)

Re end of season, it's more their perspective, he's would have had 4 years and close to 700M, for that money, 2nd isn't the answer. The concern will be Chelsea is finding their footing, Pool has transitioned well and United will have a new manager (it won't be easier next season)

 

[Mrs Vert]

We are inconsistent and need to get that sorted. From game to game not sure what we are going to get. And that goes for being in the same game and dishing up different half performances

 

[glasgowspur]

Arteta has surprised me, he has elevated Arsenal much further than I ever thought he would. (I still think he isn't a great manager overall though).

I think all he is doing at the moment is showing pragmatism. He spent two seasons proving his team could play great football...and they still came up short. We, and certainly he, know that the margins when City are in town are minute, so he's decided that every point is the most valuable thing on earth and he's playing, at times, that most horrid brand of football to harvest those points. I do think it is a last throw from him. I don't think it will work and wouldn't be surprised if he feels his time is done at Arsenal come the end of the season imo.

His game plan seems to be lose as few points as possible against city and Liverpool and take more points off the fodder than they do and hope that is enough.
Don't think that's a good enough plan.

 

[glorygloryeze]

His game plan seems to be lose as few points as possible against city and Liverpool and take more points off the fodder than they do and hope that is enough.
Don't think that's a good enough plan.

Often worked for SAF at Man Utd tbf...but i agree with you that it (probably) won't be enough in this case

 

[glasgowspur]

Often worked for SAF at Man Utd tbf...but i agree with you that it (probably) won't be enough in this case

Yes it worked for utd because they were the top team at time, arsenal aren't.
It's as good a plan to stop city as any, but like all plans for stopping city you are basically hoping city slip up.

 

[Muttley]

Arteta has surprised me, he has elevated Arsenal much further than I ever thought he would. (I still think he isn't a great manager overall though).

I think all he is doing at the moment is showing pragmatism. He spent two seasons proving his team could play great football...and they still came up short. We, and certainly he, know that the margins when City are in town are minute, so he's decided that every point is the most valuable thing on earth and he's playing, at times, that most horrid brand of football to harvest those points. I do think it is a last throw from him. I don't think it will work and wouldn't be surprised if he feels his time is done at Arsenal come the end of the season imo.

I used that word "plateau" earlier. Arsenal have come within 5 points and 2 points of winning the league and at the moment they are 5 points off the lead in this early part of the season. That FA Cup win is a while ago now and they haven't added to their cup trophy haul.

Have they plateau'd under Arteta or should they keep plugging away?

I guess people will highlight the manager as the root cause. Others will look at the dearth of world class strikers and have some sympathy that they've haven't landed their own Haaland. Some might question big signings like Jesus or Havertz and whether they've been able to push them into the winning zone. Of course, there won't be only one root cause in this complex equation. Besides, who do they turn to if they relieve Arteta of his contract which runs for 2-3 more years.

Probably like most on here, I despise them winning anything. However, the practical side of me is saying that there has to be hope that well-run, non-bankrolled clubs can win trophies against the billionaires. We want Ange to take us to where they are now and beyond and we have to have hope that the model works.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Arteta has surprised me, he has elevated Arsenal much further than I ever thought he would. (I still think he isn't a great manager overall though).

I think all he is doing at the moment is showing pragmatism. He spent two seasons proving his team could play great football...and they still came up short. We, and certainly he, know that the margins when City are in town are minute, so he's decided that every point is the most valuable thing on earth and he's playing, at times, that most horrid brand of football to harvest those points. I do think it is a last throw from him. I don't think it will work and wouldn't be surprised if he feels his time is done at Arsenal come the end of the season imo.

But he has spent a fortune and they haven’t won anything under his tenure with his team (everyone says the teams he inherited wasn’t his side and that’s the one that won)
He is mourinho without the medals

 

[Finney Is Back]

Nuno was getting pelters at the United game, was kicking off all round me at the game. There were plenty of calls on here and socials for Poch to go, was debated for donkeys and frankly death. If that influenced the sack or not who knows, but people were calling for both.

Far more calls for him to remain if I recall correctly (especially from the more sensible posters).
Also if Levy is letting social media dictate his decision making then we're in a really bad place (and maybe that does explain some of the decisioning over the past umpteen years?)