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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

braineclipse said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1851391898717503672

This really resonates with me and how I'm currently thinking about where we are. Of course tactics, player quality, player selection and subs are important. We probably need more transfer businesses in the next couple of windows too.

But maturity, leadership, how we respond in difficult moments. That's what's most important right now and improving that takes time.

Very happy to see Ange speak, seemingly honestly, about this. If this mirrors his approach and viewpoint behind the scenes too I'm very happy with that.
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I think it might also be fair to ask: how much is this 'lack of maturity' down to he himself having to learn about the competitiveness of the PL and having to learn and develop his own coaching strategies etc?

This is, after all, the highest level of domestic league he has managed in...
 
Muttley said:
Here's a question.

How do we feel Ange's tactical system works against a high press 3-5-2 like we saw at the weekend?

I'm having some doubts. Whoscored stats on touches by our wide players sort of proved that they've been doubled up (e.g. Guehi/Mitchell) and negated. Bissouma was swamped and we were repeatedly done on the outside with our narrow full-backs.

Just gets you wondering whether the Ange system is designed to disrupt and dismantle 4-x-x system and he hasn't thought it through well enough for the 3-x-x systems.

Just a thought.
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It's held it's own against much better teams than Palace

It wasn't the press itself, but the press, plus forcing the game into a stop/start (we like to knock the ball around, to draw the opposition out), plus the physicality

billyiddo said:
Would improved leadership have helped us play around Palace's press or be more creative in the final third v Palace?

V Leicester & Saudi Sportswashing Machine when our heads dropped after conceding I can see the point but I fear he's looking in the wrong place if he thinks that was the problem on Sunday tbh
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Yes, because the manager can make decisions only at certain points (HT or with subs). Experienced players can make decisions on field, i.e. x is not working, lets just do y for 10 minutes, get ourselves back in some control or just stop the opposition doing what they are doing for a short period of time.

Said it elsewhere, the Maddison/Sarr change against Spam at HT was both a tactical (one of the 8's dropping deeper to create pockets of space for Son/Johnson to run into) as well as personnel (Sarr runs more), Maddison as an experienced pro could have done the tactical part (for 5 mins) if he saw what Ange saw.
 
Muttley said:
Love your post.

On one of your points, I think there is still the question mark over Levy though. At the moment I'm really trying to believe that he really is letting Scott Munn run football operations. That is budgetary control and Scott is the one making these tough hiring and firing decisions. Scott is the one working with the 1st managers to get them what they need and set the strategic direction on the player side with Ange.

At this point, Levy has moved into a less tactical box than he's had for his entire tenure at the club. It is because he himself saw the shortcomings of his many decisions on football. So as a great leader, he did something about it and implemented a new model that protected his company from these shortcomings. That doesn't mean to say he won't have the C-level reviews on all matters beneath him in every area of his business, and share an opinion once in a while. He'll still sign the big cheques :)

We now get to see whether what I explain really is the model that is actually happening, or whether he is still too involved. I don't want him making any unpopular or ruthless decisions on football operations anymore. He has such a bad track record in that area. We're not a £100m revenue business anymore.
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I think that specific question is the only one which can actually guide us to an answer as to Ange. WE know he deserves the time. The system is in place. But history tells us if Daniel feels the hot winds on him, then...

...it is the only thing which will make a difference to that cycle.
 
thfcsteff said:
I think that specific question is the only one which can actually guide us to an answer as to Ange. WE know he deserves the time. The system is in place. But history tells us if Daniel feels the hot winds on him, then...

...it is the only thing which will make a difference to that cycle.
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Do we? even on this board (one of the more measured viewpoints on game/club) they have people who question, who I think would replace Ange, broader social media is full of idiots who fall back to the "he's out of his depth", "we concede too many" (not true this season), "we don't adapt" (also not true).

I think there is very little noise/discontent around the club itself right now, any noise about us is media driven, social media clickbait.

I stand by the view, outside of the wheels completely falling off, Ange probably has next season as well to prove this works ..
 
Raziel said:
Do we? even on this board (one of the more measured viewpoints on game/club) they have people who question, who I think would replace Ange, broader social media is full of idiots who fall back to the "he's out of his depth", "we concede too many" (not true this season), "we don't adapt" (also not true).

I think there is very little noise/discontent around the club itself right now, any noise about us is media driven, social media clickbait.

I stand by the view, outside of the wheels completely falling off, Ange probably has next season as well to prove this works ..
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Oh I think you're right re: noise/clickbait. But the wider question of whether DL is leaving Munn (and Lange) to run the football side remains. As long as those two are, then I think you're right. If they're just sophisticated figureheads, then it becomes dicier. If Stavely takes a tangible interest and wants to move Howe down here, will we hold firm?

BTW, I thought Ange's comments on leadership were outstanding. I am all in (not that I wasn't before).
 
A key part of the after match interview, reported on
www.football.london

Every word Postecoglou said on Van de Ven injury, Romero sub, Werner and Sarr

Here is every word Ange Postecoglou had to say in his post-match press conference following Tottenham's 2-1 win against Emirates Marketing Project in the fourth round of the Carabao Cup
www.football.london www.football.london

I think this is excellent from Ange, with clear messaging to the fans who are on the fence.




And for the playing group to go toe-to-toe with a really good City side, does that feel like a big step forward in the development for this group?

I'm not going to go for big steps forward or big steps back. We're the same team we were three days ago. We're a side that's growing, we're developing. I've seen progress, I'll continue to see progress, but we're going to have stumbles along the way. In the same way, we don't lose our nerve after having a poor one on the weekend. Tonight doesn't mean that we need to change our approach.

We're just going to keep working on what we've been doing and keep believing in the process of what we're trying to build. The key thing for us tonight was obviously the victory. In a cup competition, ultimately, that's the main thing. You've got to win to keep going. And the fact that it was against a formidable opponent is great for the whole group.

Do you think there was a bit of wounded pride given the Crystal Palace defeat?

I hope not. I really hope not. That's what I'm talking about. We can't wait for these things to change our approach. Yes, we were disappointed on the weekend because we didn't reach the levels we needed to. We shouldn't wait for those moments then to react.

But, as I said yesterday, this group is still learning a lot of these things. They need to have these experiences of difficult times. How they cope with them, how they react to them is important, for sure. You don't want difficult times to last too long.

For us this year, we kind of bounced back whenever we've had a bit of a stumble. But the idea is not to stumble too often either. We should prepare ourselves for another big game on the weekend.

I continue to see growth in this group of players and this team. I want them to have these moments because I know how important it is to accelerate the growth of what we're doing. But for me, personally, nothing really changes. It's about trying to continually push this group to become the team we want to be.

We're not there yet, fair to say. But as I said yesterday, I'm really optimistic and bullish about this group of players. I just think they've got a really high ceiling and we've just got to keep focusing on that.
 
Bullet said:
A key part of the after match interview, reported on
www.football.london

Every word Postecoglou said on Van de Ven injury, Romero sub, Werner and Sarr

Here is every word Ange Postecoglou had to say in his post-match press conference following Tottenham's 2-1 win against Emirates Marketing Project in the fourth round of the Carabao Cup
www.football.london www.football.london

I think this is excellent from Ange, with clear messaging to the fans who are on the fence.




And for the playing group to go toe-to-toe with a really good City side, does that feel like a big step forward in the development for this group?

I'm not going to go for big steps forward or big steps back. We're the same team we were three days ago. We're a side that's growing, we're developing. I've seen progress, I'll continue to see progress, but we're going to have stumbles along the way. In the same way, we don't lose our nerve after having a poor one on the weekend. Tonight doesn't mean that we need to change our approach.

We're just going to keep working on what we've been doing and keep believing in the process of what we're trying to build. The key thing for us tonight was obviously the victory. In a cup competition, ultimately, that's the main thing. You've got to win to keep going. And the fact that it was against a formidable opponent is great for the whole group.

Do you think there was a bit of wounded pride given the Crystal Palace defeat?

I hope not. I really hope not. That's what I'm talking about. We can't wait for these things to change our approach. Yes, we were disappointed on the weekend because we didn't reach the levels we needed to. We shouldn't wait for those moments then to react.

But, as I said yesterday, this group is still learning a lot of these things. They need to have these experiences of difficult times. How they cope with them, how they react to them is important, for sure. You don't want difficult times to last too long.

For us this year, we kind of bounced back whenever we've had a bit of a stumble. But the idea is not to stumble too often either. We should prepare ourselves for another big game on the weekend.

I continue to see growth in this group of players and this team. I want them to have these moments because I know how important it is to accelerate the growth of what we're doing. But for me, personally, nothing really changes. It's about trying to continually push this group to become the team we want to be.

We're not there yet, fair to say. But as I said yesterday, I'm really optimistic and bullish about this group of players. I just think they've got a really high ceiling and we've just got to keep focusing on that.
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Another bunch of really good answers from Ange. Mirrors what he said before the game. Lovely stuff.

These to me are the biggest markers of improvement we want to see this season. Consistency and improved mentality/ability to deal with difficult phases of games better.
 
To be fair to us, and I've been critical of Ange's approach to defending, I thought we defended really well second half especially given that both VdV and Romero went off. City didn't create a chance worth talking about bar the one Bissouma cleared off the line after Vicario had a brainfart. The only other effort was edge of the box where perhaps the lad had too much time. I thought we were defensively very good other than that second half. My only criticism, and I'm being hyper critical, is that I thought Gray was left a bit exposed but, thankfully, very little came from it. We also created 3 or 4 great chances ourselves.

We weren't just balls out attacking, "do plan A and if plan A doesn't work, do it better". A bit more of that at the right times and we'll be a better side for it.
 
DeanoAustin said:
To be fair to us, and I've been critical of Ange's approach to defending, I thought we defended really well second half especially given that both VdV and Romero went off. City didn't create a chance worth talking about bar the one Bissouma cleared off the line after Vicario had a brainfart. The only other effort was edge of the box where perhaps the lad had too much time. I thought we were defensively very good other than that second half. My only criticism, and I'm being hyper critical, is that I thought Gray was left a bit exposed but, thankfully, very little came from it. We also created 3 or 4 great chances ourselves.

We weren't just balls out attacking, "do plan A and if plan A doesn't work, do it better". A bit more of that at the right times and we'll be a better side for it.
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Yeah, just wrote on the other thread that Brennan needs to ask some tough questions of himself defensively when he compares himself to some of his team mates. The coaching staff need to make him more aware of what he needs to do.

Scoring and assisting goals is great, but he needs to keep improving on the uglier side of the game in my opinion.
 
DeanoAustin said:
To be fair to us, and I've been critical of Ange's approach to defending, I thought we defended really well second half especially given that both VdV and Romero went off. City didn't create a chance worth talking about bar the one Bissouma cleared off the line after Vicario had a brainfart. The only other effort was edge of the box where perhaps the lad had too much time. I thought we were defensively very good other than that second half. My only criticism, and I'm being hyper critical, is that I thought Gray was left a bit exposed but, thankfully, very little came from it. We also created 3 or 4 great chances ourselves.

We weren't just balls out attacking, "do plan A and if plan A doesn't work, do it better". A bit more of that at the right times and we'll be a better side for it.
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That was some of the most balanced play i've seen us undertake under Ange against such a dangerous side. Still some tricky moments but we were up against City, as depleted as they were, they still are always a big threat.
Long may we continue to play defend and be as balanced like that.

I also believe that was City's first defeat this season?
 
glorygloryeze said:
That was some of the most balanced play i've seen us undertake under Ange against such a dangerous side. Still some tricky moments but we were up against City, as depleted as they were, they still are always a big threat.
Long may we continue to play defend and be as balanced like that.

I also believe that was City's first defeat this season?
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Yep, since the cup final with United I think
 
DeanoAustin said:
To be fair to us, and I've been critical of Ange's approach to defending, I thought we defended really well second half especially given that both VdV and Romero went off. City didn't create a chance worth talking about bar the one Bissouma cleared off the line after Vicario had a brainfart. The only other effort was edge of the box where perhaps the lad had too much time. I thought we were defensively very good other than that second half. My only criticism, and I'm being hyper critical, is that I thought Gray was left a bit exposed but, thankfully, very little came from it. We also created 3 or 4 great chances ourselves.

We weren't just balls out attacking, "do plan A and if plan A doesn't work, do it better". A bit more of that at the right times and we'll be a better side for it.
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As was said last season, drill plan A first, then you can start to adapt and adjust.

Within set principles I continue to think Ange adjusts more than he gets credit for.

One of the things I really liked about this performance defensively was how cohesive we looked. The pressing was really good again, but more cohesive when we weren't pressing high and we mostly maintained a level of aggression when we weren't pressing high.

I think plan A includes that there will be times when we're pushed back and/or unable to press high. Particularly against a team like City.

On trying to play out through their press we definitely stuck to our plan, and good thing that we did.
 
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