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Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

Muttley said:
It's a great post and articulates what I'm feeling with Ange. There is a directness about Pep and Slot that Ange hasn't adopted. That makes him wholly predictable. When Ange first joined, I said his teams were trying to play 5-a-side football from our goal to theirs. I said that the system was perhaps too idealistic in a league where even Pep has learnt the value of mixing it up and playing direct at times. That is with a very expensively assembled squad where everyone is comfortable on the ball.

Now we now see new narratives appearing e.g. the entire system breaks because Dragusin isn't a good enough ball player OR the other players don't pass to Dragusin anymore. For me, it's always about the players, the injuries, the fatigue, the average age etc. A different narrative every week.

It's actually becoming ABA - Anything But Ange.

I do understand that Ange has goodwill with us because he is genuinely a great guy and wants to play front foot, progressive football. We all want him to succeed but there comes a time when he needs to use every chapter in that manager's playbook. There comes a time where he needs to be held to account if he is not. I'm suggesting that time is now coming to a head in these next 3-4 months.
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You mean like the narratives that we should defend deeper, play with more conventional full backs and play long more.

Against Arsenal we either sat back more or were forced back. Either way we defended deep a lot.

Against Arsenal and in other games we haven't inverted the full backs as much.

Against Arsenal and in other games recently we've been playing more long balls.

It's still about the injuries and fatigue because that has imo been the problem for quite a while now because we've had a lot of injuries for a while now.

To me at least Dragusin not being good enough on the ball isn't a new narrative. I've been saying it for ages.

Unsurprisingly when facing a good high press having one CB and one fairly deep midfielder that's not comfortable on the ball under pressure will make playing through that press very difficult.

Unsurprisingly teams that press high are usually quite happy to see the opposition play the long ball.

That's not new.
 
Muttley said:
It's a great post and articulates what I'm feeling with Ange. There is a directness about Pep and Slot that Ange hasn't adopted. That makes him wholly predictable. When Ange first joined, I said his teams were trying to play 5-a-side football from our goal to theirs. I said that the system was perhaps too idealistic in a league where even Pep has learnt the value of mixing it up and playing direct at times. That is with a very expensively assembled squad where everyone is comfortable on the ball.

Now we now see new narratives appearing e.g. the entire system breaks because Dragusin isn't a good enough ball player OR the other players don't pass to Dragusin anymore. For me, it's always about the players, the injuries, the fatigue, the average age etc. A different narrative every week.

It's actually becoming ABA - Anything But Ange.

I do understand that Ange has goodwill with us because he is genuinely a great guy and wants to play front foot, progressive football. We all want him to succeed but there comes a time when he needs to use every chapter in that manager's playbook. There comes a time where he needs to be held to account if he is not. I'm suggesting that time is now coming to a head in these next 3-4 months.
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I want all our managers to succeed, they succeed, we succeed. We're all the same on that, their success is our success.
As much as I disliked Jose and conte as people I would have loved it if they had succeeded.
Same with Harry who I was never fond of.
Ideally for me you want a Poch or a nuno to be the ones. Good people getting their rewards.
I'd be content with it being ange, bmj or avb who to be honest I never warmed to any of them.
Ange and bmj I've never seen the great guy that others have seen, all I've seen is grumpy and prickly.
 
braineclipse said:
You mean like the narratives that we should defend deeper, play with more conventional full backs and play long more.

Against Arsenal we either sat back more or were forced back. Either way we defended deep a lot.

Against Arsenal and in other games we haven't inverted the full backs as much.

Against Arsenal and in other games recently we've been playing more long balls.

It's still about the injuries and fatigue because that has imo been the problem for quite a while now because we've had a lot of injuries for a while now.

To me at least Dragusin not being good enough on the ball isn't a new narrative. I've been saying it for ages.

Unsurprisingly when facing a good high press having one CB and one fairly deep midfielder that's not comfortable on the ball under pressure will make playing through that press very difficult.

Unsurprisingly teams that press high are usually quite happy to see the opposition play the long ball.

That's not new.
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So your saying we played differently last night
I mean you’re right. Some of that is because of what they did and some is because of what we did
But we do play differently game to game but lots don’t see it
 
jabbathehut said:
No points in the next 3 league games would probably be the end unless a season in the championship is part of the plan.
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Looked at fixtures this morning. Both Wolves and Ipswich have a stinking run the next 3 games so even if we lost against Everton and Leicester, we'd still probably have an 8 point cushion which keeps us fairly safe. The problem could be that the status quo is maintained because we all lose the next few and then they get an easier run than us. Lot of football to be played before then though. I think we'll get 4-6 points from these two games which should kill any serious relegation fears.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Looked at fixtures this morning. Both Wolves and Ipswich have a stinking run the next 3 games so even if we lost against Everton and Leicester, we'd still probably have an 8 point cushion which keeps us fairly safe. The problem could be that the status quo is maintained because we all lose the next few and then they get an easier run than us. Lot of football to be played before then though. I think we'll get 4-6 points from these two games which should kill any serious relegation fears.
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Even if we win them there will still be calls for Ange to go because if will be luck, players returning, shape of the moon
Nothing to do with the players and the manager working together
We have just had a horrible run of fixtures by the way
Pool was a battering
Arsenal was bland
Forrest was marginal
Chelsea we gave them the goals
Saudi Sportswashing Machine was a robbery
I’ve never seen the Bournemouth game but we were lucky to just lose by 1
Fulham we were lucky to draw but if son hadn’t missed the sitters we win that
And wolves we missed a penalty to put the game to bed
brick happens
Can’t be many sides that being a player in fresh who almost breaks his neck 6 minutes into a game
Or pulls a hamstring or 10
 
Bedfordspurs said:
So your saying we played differently last night
I mean you’re right. Some of that is because of what they did and some is because of what we did
But we do play differently game to game but lots don’t see it
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I think the insinuation from the manager's comments on his own team and tactics was more one of mis-execution. At least that is how it presented itself to me. Same at the weekend. Whilst there is some deviation from the plan A tactics, I think the bigger reason is the mis-execution. There is also a strong argument that fatigue could be the large percentage of the root cause of that, impacting the guys both physically and mentally.

Also, that was Odegard's 4th game in January, being second half sub in the other. He came off the back of the 120 mins disappointment against Utd only 3 days ago and gets MoTM. I'm curious to know what is the secret sauce (or science) of the other managers that deal with the schedule and the injuries and see their players play with such vigour.

I will caveat that this conversation should be about trends across multiple data points, with no shame losing to a team that has been competing for the title for 3 years. They're all one off games.

Very curious to know whether we're just developing that ABA culture rather than being really objective about the guy. I'm unfortunately stuck in that place right now having given him the benefit of the doubt.
 
DeanoAustin said:
You have the give the club some credit here. Levy's been characterised as a chairman with an itchy finger who'll sack managers to deflect from his own shortcomings. He's staying the course here - whatever happens, Ange will not be able to say he wasn't given a fair crack of the whip in terms of time.
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As long as he gets until the end of the season before next real assessment, I'm good with that.
 
DeanoAustin said:
You have the give the club some credit here. Levy's been characterised as a chairman with an itchy finger who'll sack managers to deflect from his own shortcomings. He's staying the course here - whatever happens, Ange will not be able to say he wasn't given a fair crack of the whip in terms of time.
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I think some credit to the club is warranted.

I think it's mostly on Ange though. He hasn't lost the players. He hasn't melted down. He doesn't seem exhausted and done.

He is getting a fair crack with regards to time and surely knows himself that this is the kind of run that sometimes get managers sacked. He's feeling the pressure for sure, even if it's true that the club is backing him fully. And imo dealing with that pressure rather well.
 
Muttley said:
I think the insinuation from the manager's comments on his own team and tactics was more one of mis-execution. At least that is how it presented itself to me. Same at the weekend. Whilst there is some deviation from the plan A tactics, I think the bigger reason is the mis-execution. There is also a strong argument that fatigue could be the large percentage of the root cause of that, impacting the guys both physically and mentally.

Also, that was Odegard's 4th game in January, being second half sub in the other. He came off the back of the 120 mins disappointment against Utd only 3 days ago and gets MoTM. I'm curious to know what is the secret sauce (or science) of the other managers that deal with the schedule and the injuries and see their players play with such vigour.

I will caveat that this conversation should be about trends across multiple data points, with no shame losing to a team that has been competing for the title for 3 years. They're all one off games.

Very curious to know whether we're just developing that ABA culture rather than being really objective about the guy. I'm unfortunately stuck in that place right now having given him the benefit of the doubt.
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Have you seen the game yet?
It was a poor poor game
Very little pace and energy
Odegard was controlling it at a snails pace
Their own fans are comparing they are tired too. The reason they are managing it is because they have more players available .. and even then sky have been at great pains to highlight the Arsenal injury crisis
Barely a mention of ours
Then they focussed on their left back being 18 forgetting we had 2 18 year old and 4 players making their first NLD start plus a keeper making his league debut
The game for me kinda went as I expected
Even the goals scored were all poor
 
billyiddo said:
So? Just because there is always likely to be a section of fans that are unreasonable it doesn't make everyone so at any given time. You can argue against those people and their position at that point - it isn't an answer to criticism of the manager currently.
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There should be fair credit and criticism
Thats all I expect
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Have you seen the game yet?
It was a poor poor game
Very little pace and energy
Odegard was controlling it at a snails pace
Their own fans are comparing they are tired too. The reason they are managing it is because they have more players available .. and even then sky have been at great pains to highlight the Arsenal injury crisis
Barely a mention of ours
Then they focussed on their left back being 18 forgetting we had 2 18 year old and 4 players making their first NLD start plus a keeper making his league debut
The game for me kinda went as I expected
Even the goals scored were all poor
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Brief highlights only. Had a band rehearsal on NLD night. Need to get my priorities right. Being a football fanatic and a music nut aren't so complimentary as you know. The word minority springs to mind.

Totally makes sense what you're saying about the NLD tempo. At least Everton played last night. Last thing we need is them being as fresh as a daisy.
 
Muttley said:
Brief highlights only. Had a band rehearsal on NLD night. Need to get my priorities right. Being a football fanatic and a music nut aren't so complimentary as you know. The word minority springs to mind.

Totally makes sense what you're saying about the NLD tempo. At least Everton played last night. Last thing we need is them being as fresh as a daisy.
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IMO it was an awful game and not because we lost
2 OGs and a weird bounce off a divot for the goals
 
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