• Dear Guest, Please note that adult content is not permitted on this forum. We have had our Google ads disabled at times due to some posts that were found from some time ago. Please do not post adult content and if you see any already on the forum, please report the post so that we can deal with it. Adult content is allowed in the glory hole - you will have to request permission to access it. Thanks, scara

Welcome Ange: To Dare is to Didgeridoo

thfcsteff said:
I am not a fan of Johnathan Liew, but this is a provoactive yet well-articulated piece.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-team-supremely-unlucky-or-unforgivably-naive
Click to expand...
It's a very good piece.

I've never known or had this type of feeling with a manager. ie it's very likely to succeed just as much as it will fail.
The direction of travel is not giving me any certainty either.
The overall outcome is potentially like many of our games....you just don't know what might happen.

And because of all that my overriding feeling is unease. I suppose it's the uncertainty that does that....but please don't prolong it too long:)
 
Last edited:
Muttley said:
It's a great post and articulates what I'm feeling with Ange. There is a directness about Pep and Slot that Ange hasn't adopted. That makes him wholly predictable. When Ange first joined, I said his teams were trying to play 5-a-side football from our goal to theirs. I said that the system was perhaps too idealistic in a league where even Pep has learnt the value of mixing it up and playing direct at times. That is with a very expensively assembled squad where everyone is comfortable on the ball.
Click to expand...
There was a convo on twitter that made me laugh where they said the same and when I look at it I kinda agree, there is a sense of "go out there and play with freedom like you are over the part" which seemingly lacks the structure, great when it works, its fantastic, when we are without the ball for a long time we lack any kind of structure to fight it off for a long period. I watched United at the weekend and yes Arsenal missed alot of chances but there was also a resilience I don't see us having
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
It's a very good piece.

I've never known or had this type of feeling with a manager. ie it's very likely to succeed just as much as it will fail.
The direction of travel is not giving me any certainty either.
The overall outcome is potentially like many of our games....you just don't know what might happen.

And because of all that my overriding feeling is unease. I suppose uncertainty does that....but don't prolong it too long:)
Click to expand...
If Jose or Conte had us in this position, I'd be calling for their heads.

Ange is a nicer guy, plays better football and I'm fatigued from the merry go round so I'm happy for him to have to the end of the season unless we get in a real scrap. Like you, I have absolutely no idea how this will go.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I’d be worried if a manager didn’t know how the opposition manager didn’t know
I can say as a fan how every team will try to play in this league
That part is predictable
Click to expand...
They were basically saying (as did Salah after the 3-6, amongst other players) that they knew exactly how to play against us to ensure the win. It is beyond us, for example, knowing that City will want to have plenty of the ball.
 
DeanoAustin said:
If Jose or Conte had us in this position, I'd be calling for their heads.

Ange is a nicer guy, plays better football and I'm fatigued from the merry go round so I'm happy for him to have to the end of the season unless we get in a real scrap. Like you, I have absolutely no idea how this will go.
Click to expand...
Playing better more entertaining football is a pragmatic thing because it allows a manager to get through a phase like this without losing the players or fans. Gives a better possibility of getting through and continue building from there rather than starting again with a new manager.
 
DeanoAustin said:
If Jose or Conte had us in this position, I'd be calling for their heads.

Ange is a nicer guy, plays better football and I'm fatigued from the merry go round so I'm happy for him to have to the end of the season unless we get in a real scrap. Like you, I have absolutely no idea how this will go.
Click to expand...
This is the thing...you can see the direction of travel with Jose or Conte it's a well trodden path...ending with a downward spiral with red flags and well signposted by their own comments.

There's just such a wide spread of potential outcomes imo. Whether that's the team giving me that vibe, Ange himself holding it together, the board being behind him, but results looking iffy...it's endless plusses, negatives and unknowns.
 
Muttley said:
It's a great post and articulates what I'm feeling with Ange. There is a directness about Pep and Slot that Ange hasn't adopted. That makes him wholly predictable. When Ange first joined, I said his teams were trying to play 5-a-side football from our goal to theirs. I said that the system was perhaps too idealistic in a league where even Pep has learnt the value of mixing it up and playing direct at times. That is with a very expensively assembled squad where everyone is comfortable on the ball.

Now we now see new narratives appearing e.g. the entire system breaks because Dragusin isn't a good enough ball player OR the other players don't pass to Dragusin anymore. For me, it's always about the players, the injuries, the fatigue, the average age etc. A different narrative every week.

It's actually becoming ABA - Anything But Ange.

I do understand that Ange has goodwill with us because he is genuinely a great guy and wants to play front foot, progressive football. We all want him to succeed but there comes a time when he needs to use every chapter in that manager's playbook. There comes a time where he needs to be held to account if he is not. I'm suggesting that time is now coming to a head in these next 3-4 months.
Click to expand...
He's been here 19 months. There is a strong argument that the time for being held to account is now, especially if he was saying last night (as he seemed to be) that the players either still can't do what he wants them to, or - even worse - won't.

I'm not sure how many really are playing for him, to be honest. The youngsters, yes - but then they would. It's human nature to question methods which have seen your team net 30 points out of the last possible 80, and 5 out of the last 27, injuries or no injuries.

Has any player actually come out and said they enjoy playing under him during the last 12 months? Which players have actually improved in a similar way to what we saw under Poch?

We are now, though, stuck between a rock and a hard place imo. Our option were we to sack Ange is probably Mason and I don't think that has many (any?) benefits for anyone. I doubt that Levy will pay the compensation necessary to free up mid-season someone we would really want.

So, we probably need to ride it out until summer, painful as that looks like it could be.
 
Mikey10 said:
They were basically saying (as did Salah after the 3-6, amongst other players) that they knew exactly how to play against us to ensure the win. It is beyond us, for example, knowing that City will want to have plenty of the ball.
Click to expand...
I’d be worried if a coach didn’t know who the opposition played
If they change to suit us that’s their call
We change things too
 
Last edited:
Mikey10 said:
He's been here 19 months. There is a strong argument that the time for being held to account is now, especially if he was saying last night (as he seemed to be) that the players either still can't do what he wants them to, or - even worse - won't.

I'm not sure how many really are playing for him, to be honest. The youngsters, yes - but then they would. It's human nature to question methods which have seen your team net 30 points out of the last possible 80, and 5 out of the last 27, injuries or no injuries.

Has any player actually come out and said they enjoy playing under him during the last 12 months? Which players have actually improved in a similar way to what we saw under Poch?

We are now, though, stuck between a rock and a hard place imo. Our option were we to sack Ange is probably Mason and I don't think that has many (any?) benefits for anyone. I doubt that Levy will pay the compensation necessary to free up mid-season someone we would really want.

So, we probably need to ride it out until summer, painful as that looks like it could be.
Click to expand...

Romero, last month:

Romero told Telemundo: "He's a great coach. We saw it in the first season. In this second one we've suffered a lot of injuries.

...

"We are very happy with this staff, me and my colleagues. We love how they work and the football they try to play. We'll try to move on quickly."

Albeit we haven't moved on quickly and he's been injured for all but about 20 mins of the games since then, but still.
 
veryoldspur said:
I'm glad I'm not the only one on here who can see how bad this manager. We are in a minority mate, as everyone else appears to think he is our saviour. Here are some stats I have copied and pasted from the BBC site
  • Tottenham have lost 11 games in the Premier League this season; their joint-most at this stage of a single campaign in the competition (also 11 in 1997-98, 2003-04 and 2008-09).
  • The only sides who have lost more in the league this season than Tottenham are the three teams currently in the relegation zone - Wolves, Leicester and Southampton.
  • Since beating Aston Villa 4-1 on 3 November, Tottenham have lost eight, drawn four and only won five of their 17 games in all competitions, although three of those victories have been against Emirates Marketing Project (4-0 away), Manchester United (4-3 home) and Liverpool (1-0 home).
  • Tottenham have failed to win in their past five games in the Premier League; their last joint-longest winless streak was 6 November to 7 December 2023.
  • Spurs have lost 18 points from winning positions in the Premier League this season - only Fulham (19) have lost more.
  • Tottenham have won just one of their past nine Premier League matches (drawn two, lost six), with that victory coming at bottom side Southampton (5-0). Indeed, since the start of this run only Leicester (four) and Southampton (one) have earned fewer points in the Premier League than Spurs (five).
  • Spurs have not finished outside the top 10 in the Premier League since 2007-08 when they came 11th, but did win the League Cup.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the data. My point t was more to do with Ange seeming to blame the players, and publicly calling out the 18 year olds. Upon reflection I reckon the stress is getting to him. But it’s language used by the likes of Mou and Conte to blame players. And young players too.

To me, Ange lacks flexibility. He won’t adapt training or play style. So we have 7 or so hamstring injuries. He won’t adapt play style, so we come out for our second half against Brighton as if we are minutes from the end of a cup game and desperately need a goal.

And then the club mainly buy him future players and not now players.

And then there are the inevitable pieces of bad luck and awful referee decisions.

But the buck stops with the manager ultimately.
 
Mr Gogolak said:
It's really a weird season, as I don't think I've ever been on the fence for so long with a manager. Last night, I was thinking that you can't fire the manager on a performance like that. Sure, it wasn't world-beating stuff, but we were in the game. Despite the injuries (I'm not sold on tiredness: Salah played 29 games with Liverpool, Kulusevski 28 and nobody's saying Salah is tired), we made it difficult for them. But then we lose so many games... there has to be a line drawn somewhere.

What really bothers me is that this season is season is exactly the same as the previous one: three months thrown away because of injuries (because of non-contact injuries, I might add). We really can't have that. I feel he's managed the squad a bit better this time but at this rate, it would take a billion years for him to navigate through the festive season without our season being completely screwed up.

The argument about the number of games is also completely irrelevant in my opinion. European competitions is where we want to be. You can't spend a full season trying to get in and then use it as an excuse. The extra games didn't come as a surprise.

Basically, when we're not playing, I want him out. And then, the next match comes up and I can't help but think... if it worked, it would be so great. Sometimes, it feels like one of these rigged games where you keep on losing but also keep on playing because of the frustration it generates. There's got to be a way to make it work! Let's have another game!

I guess at the end of the day, I'm one of these 'head says get rid, heart says keep' people...
Click to expand...
Do you have stats on Salah’s in game efforts vs Kulu? Minutes/sprints etc. that’s the truer reflection of why a player might be tired. Plus, if you’re winning as much as salah is it’s easier.
 
Mikey10 said:
So, we probably need to ride it out until summer, painful as that looks like it could be.
Click to expand...

Perhaps "ride it out" are harsh words. I'm still collecting data points and want them to work in favour of Ange. I'm just not sure they will. He definitely gets to the summer.

I'm also not one of those that can never be happy. I think you can be happy and also share reservations about things that concern you. I chat to my Liverpool mates and they're always sharing concerns. The feeling that the squad isn't deep enough to go all the way. The worries that the club don't have an adequate Salah replacement. Darwin bloody Nunez not hitting a barn door. Injury woes in defence and who they need to buy in January to make up the shortfall. Not getting a big transfer fee for Trent. PGMOL and the bloody refs.

Doesn't mean they're not happy with the direction though.

I still have the feeling that the direction of travel for Spurs is a good one. It's still early days in operating at this new wealth level and it's taken time to refresh some important things at the club, including the playing squad. Doesn't mean I don't have reservations about some of the things going on. Ange is in that bucket.
 
90291Spur said:
Thanks for the data. My point t was more to do with Ange seeming to blame the players, and publicly calling out the 18 year olds. Upon reflection I reckon the stress is getting to him. But it’s language used by the likes of Mou and Conte to blame players. And young players too.

To me, Ange lacks flexibility. He won’t adapt training or play style. So we have 7 or so hamstring injuries. He won’t adapt play style, so we come out for our second half against Brighton as if we are minutes from the end of a cup game and desperately need a goal.

And then the club mainly buy him future players and not now players.

And then there are the inevitable pieces of bad luck and awful referee decisions.

But the buck stops with the manager ultimately.
Click to expand...
He wasn’t calling out the 18 years olds
IMO it was the opposite
he was saying they should feel the pain too and learn from it. That’s how I heard it
No one is excused
 
Pandy said:
Romero, last month:

Romero told Telemundo: "He's a great coach. We saw it in the first season. In this second one we've suffered a lot of injuries.

...

"We are very happy with this staff, me and my colleagues. We love how they work and the football they try to play. We'll try to move on quickly."

Albeit we haven't moved on quickly and he's been injured for all but about 20 mins of the games since then, but still.
Click to expand...
He also said about the club needs to buy more to back Ange

www.bbc.co.uk

Tottenham: Cristian Romero criticises club's board for lack of spending

Tottenham defender Cristian Romero criticises the club's board for a lack of investment following Sunday's disappointing 4-3 defeat home by Chelsea.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
thfcsteff said:
Pretty much every manager under Levy bar Poch has ended up out of their depth. If he survives, it would be against the run of managerial play for the last two and a half decades.
Click to expand...
So what do we do? We are losing game after game after game. We will be 14th in the league within a few hours, have picked up 5 points in the last 9 games, have managed to get 1 point from the bottom 3 sides, and have lost more games than Ipswich. I'm fed up with people blaming injuries, as we were just as bad before them, and even since our squad has often lost against weaker sides regardless. The fact is our tactics resemble school kids running mindlessly around a playground, with all of them thinking they are a striker. When the manager is questioned about this all he can say is "it's who we are mate". To anyone who knows anything about football it's blatantly obvious this man is a pretender and totally out of his depth. If your definition of entertaining football is to see us consistently lose, carry on giving this fool your support, I won't. Don't forget, a manager should be judged by his results!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back