Ange in or out?

[Bullet]

In. Good vibes and good game.
I hope Ange has learned a few things in recent weeks i.e. 18 year olds can be AWESOME and Spence is AWESOME and full backs can play more conservative.

 

[Muttley]

In. Good vibes and good game.
I hope Ange has learned a few things in recent weeks i.e. 18 year olds can be AWESOME and Spence is AWESOME and full backs can play more conservative.

Yep, the most encouraging thing for me is that Ange is adapting. He has the turning circle of an arctic lorry but he is slowly turning the steering wheel.

I still have some concerns that when he gets everyone fresh again, and players back, we'll see the high line, narrow full-back, centre mids ahead of play stuff again.

I genuinely hope he gets that pendulum back to the middle.

 

[El Guepardo]

From the last two matches my swingometre is back in the Ange in camp. If we can play like this then we can’t want for more. But we do need consistency and to secure a good set of results, not just one offs and then fail to turn up for weeks.

 

[Baleforce]

He can be pragmatic.

He was tonight.

So much smarter all round.

 

[Baleforce]

The difference it made letting the keeper hold the ball, I don't think we had any silly turnovers at the back from being pressed before we had got into shape.

The extra time surely made it easier for us to play out, and affected the opposition's ability to box us in, which killed us on Saturday.

 

[Muttley]

The difference it made letting the keeper hold the ball, I don't think we had any silly turnovers at the back from being pressed before we had got into shape.

The extra time surely made it easier for us to play out, and affected the opposition's ability to box us in, which killed us on Saturday.

They also had one day less to recover from their weekend game. It feels like we've been the other way round in a lot of fixtures we're had in the last month or so.

Also Gravenberch, Jones and MacAllister are getting additional workload due to the absence of Szoboszlai who has missed the last 4 or 5. I have a feeling their centre mid legs weren't as fresh as normal at the end of the game, and they knew there was a home leg to come. I cant imagine what it would have been like as a single legged affair.

 

[Baleforce]

They also had one day less to recover from their weekend game. It feels like we've been the other way round in a lot of fixtures we're had in the last month or so.

Also Gravenberch, Jones and MacAllister are getting additional workload due to the absence of Szoboszlai who has missed the last 4 or 5. I have a feeling their centre mid legs weren't as fresh as normal at the end of the game, and they knew there was a home leg to come. I cant imagine what it would have been like as a single legged affair.

Could well be.

But we definitely didn't get the ball back in play as quickly as we have been doing, we definitely played more longs balls for Solanke to chase, and we definitely didn't send as many players ahead of the ball.

I really hope it was instructed and this is what we'll see from now on, whoever we are playing.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Could well be.

But we definitely didn't get the ball back in play as quickly as we have been doing, we definitely played more longs balls for Solanke to chase, and we definitely didn't send as many players ahead of the ball.

I really hope it was instructed and this is what we'll see from now on, whoever we are playing.

Looked the same as always to me in that respect. I think we just had an advantage tonight in having a keeper who was really comfortable on the ball, offered for the pass at the right angle and could pass short or long with both feet.

 

[thfcsteff]

Could well be.

But we definitely didn't get the ball back in play as quickly as we have been doing, we definitely played more longs balls for Solanke to chase, and we definitely didn't send as many players ahead of the ball.

I really hope it was instructed and this is what we'll see from now on, whoever we are playing.

We tweaked the midfield to man-mark more/defend the pockets, and as per several games recently the FBs were not bombing on as they have been. The biggest difference was having a keeper who makes good decisions, is not shy, and has really good feet. You talked about going longer; we have been trying to do that more often, the diff was tonight we saw someone who can really play such balls and passes. Get us three more players back, a bit of rest for the beleagured front men, and this is going to be everything it has promised to be.

 

[thfcsteff]

Looked the same as always to me in that respect. I think we just had an advantage tonight in having a keeper who was really comfortable on the ball, offered for the pass at the right angle and could pass short or long with both feet.

It shows why Vic's injury was so fundamentally terrible for us, and further shows why I think a few of us (I know you were saying the same) were so concerned about who we didn't have.

 

[Finney Is Back]

It shows why Vic's injury was so fundamentally terrible for us, and further shows why I think a few of us (I know you were saying the same) were so concerned about who we didn't have.

Yes, going into the season with a back-up keeper that is poor on the ball was a big mistake. The good news is that Kinksky looks at least a level up compared to Vicario in terms of footballing ability.

 

[Robspur12]

Yes, going into the season with a back-up keeper that is poor on the ball was a big mistake. The good news is that Kinksky looks at least a level up compared to Vicario in terms of footballing ability.

Hopefully he won’t be so easily bullied at set pieces too. He looks very assured.

 

[metalgear]

Hopefully he won’t be so easily bullied at set pieces too. He looks very assured.

That's his next test with Arsenal looming

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Yep, the most encouraging thing for me is that Ange is adapting. He has the turning circle of an arctic lorry but he is slowly turning the steering wheel.

I think you'll find it's an ocean liner

 

[braineclipse]

We tweaked the midfield to man-mark more/defend the pockets, and as per several games recently the FBs were not bombing on as they have been. The biggest difference was having a keeper who makes good decisions, is not shy, and has really good feet. You talked about going longer; we have been trying to do that more often, the diff was tonight we saw someone who can really play such balls and passes. Get us three more players back, a bit of rest for the beleagured front men, and this is going to be everything it has promised to be.

First 20 minutes looked very much like typical Angeball from earlier in the season and last season. Some tweaks sure, but Angeball all the way. And it's a joy to watch.

Getting it right when we can't execute that and are playing with backups and fatigue was never going to be easy. But we're getting there with some strengthening and a touch of rest.

It's still Angeball, but the switch to a deeper line happens sooner with fatigue and up against a very good team. Not too dissimilar to previous games, like when we beat City earlier this season.

I don't think Ange is against longer balls. But that isn't our main strategy and playing long to get rid of it should be only an emergency option. With better ball players and better long range passers going long with purpose is definitely part of this system.

 

[Muttley]

We tweaked the midfield to man-mark more/defend the pockets, and as per several games recently the FBs were not bombing on as they have been. The biggest difference was having a keeper who makes good decisions, is not shy, and has really good feet. You talked about going longer; we have been trying to do that more often, the diff was tonight we saw someone who can really play such balls and passes. Get us three more players back, a bit of rest for the beleagured front men, and this is going to be everything it has promised to be.

As far as I'm concerned, it took Ange way too long to adjust to where we've finally got to. Bissouma was playing a very controlled game and actually playing as a protective 6. The full-backs were also very controlled in their play and stayed wide. Salah would have slaughtered us if we had played like other games with the full-backs too tucked in. As for the keeper, what you say is important and right. I can only add that Kinsky seems to have that "dink" in his locker. He was played so many little dinks over their players to one of ours when the straightforward pass wasn't available. That skill is underrated.

We got there in the end, but it was very similar to last season and set pieces where it took the Spurs coaches way to long to change the corner defensive setup, and even protect Venom. I just hope the next time Ange needs to make a change we don't have to wait months before it is implemented.

I know some people will always want to protect Ange, but it has taken 12-15 games to get to this obvious tactical point. Ultimately, that could be the difference between UEFA football and not. Delaying key tactical decisions cost us CL last season. It's why I'm hoping that we can just get this manager a full compliment of players so he can really be assessed. He's more good than bad, but the dynamism you see with the very top coaches could be the missing ingredient.

 

[braineclipse]

From the last two matches my swingometre is back in the Ange in camp. If we can play like this then we can’t want for more. But we do need consistency and to secure a good set of results, not just one offs and then fail to turn up for weeks.

We can play like this when we're not fatigued and missing several key players. Yesterday we showed we also can do it without key players if not desperately fatigued. As we did against Saudi Sportswashing Machine.

Imo we've always known we can play like this when the conditions are there. Showing more and more that we can do it when the conditions aren't as close to perfect as they perhaps had to be before.

One of tre next issues will be consistency. Or it's been an issue all along, but in this "get through" period we've been consistently struggling and inconsistency has been less of an issue.

If Ange is right this period will make the team stronger. Perhaps also leading to more consistency. I think we're seeing signs of that. How we dealt with frustrations against Saudi Sportswashing Machine. How we dealt with the lack of fresh legs to bring on against Liverpool. How younger players have stepped up with more game time and responsibility giving us more credible options going forward. Perhaps some players learning more how to deal with a packed fixture list, physically and mentally.

 

[braineclipse]

As far as I'm concerned, it took Ange way too long to adjust to where we've finally got to. Bissouma was playing a very controlled game and actually playing as a protective 6. The full-backs were also very controlled in their play and stayed wide. Salah would have slaughtered us if we had played like other games with the full-backs too tucked in. As for the keeper, what you say is important and right. I can only add that Kinsky seems to have that "dink" in his locker. He was played so many little dinks over their players to one of ours when the straightforward pass wasn't available. That skill is underrated.

We got there in the end, but it was very similar to last season and set pieces where it took the Spurs coaches way to long to change the corner defensive setup, and even protect Venom. I just hope the next time Ange needs to make a change we don't have to wait months before it is implemented.

I know some people will always want to protect Ange, but it has taken 12-15 games to get to this obvious tactical point. Ultimately, that could be the difference between UEFA football and not. Delaying key tactical decisions cost us CL last season. It's why I'm hoping that we can just get this manager a full compliment of players so he can really be assessed. He's more good than bad, but the dynamism you see with the very top coaches could be the missing ingredient.

Was this really that different to how we played against City when we beat them 4-0?

We've seen full backs less tucked in previously too. Problem is when we then lack ball playing quality in the centre we get so easy to force wide into non threatening situations it ends up not working. Bergvall being really good, Kinsky being really good with his feet helps with that. Making those adjustments better for us and makes it work. But they're imo not new adjustments.

Old discussion by now, but I think part of the problem last season for corners ended up being that we adjusted too much.

Enough fatigue, enough injuries, too many key profiles missing and there aren't always tactical solutions that really work.

I've gone on and on about the importance of Romero on the ball. Part of that importance has been that other players in the lineup have too many limitations on the ball. Sarr, Forster, Bissouma, Son and Johnson for example. Upping the technical quality with an up to speed Bergvall and a new signing in Kinsky compensates for that. Those compensations haven't always been available to Ange.

 

[Muttley]

Was this really that different to how we played against City when we beat them 4-0?

We've seen full backs less tucked in previously too. Problem is when we then lack ball playing quality in the centre we get so easy to force wide into non threatening situations it ends up not working. Bergvall being really good, Kinsky being really good with his feet helps with that. Making those adjustments better for us and makes it work. But they're imo not new adjustments.

Old discussion by now, but I think part of the problem last season for corners ended up being that we adjusted too much.

Enough fatigue, enough injuries, too many key profiles missing and there aren't always tactical solutions that really work.

I've gone on and on about the importance of Romero on the ball. Part of that importance has been that other players in the lineup have too many limitations on the ball. Sarr, Forster, Bissouma, Son and Johnson for example. Upping the technical quality with an up to speed Bergvall and a new signing in Kinsky compensates for that. Those compensations haven't always been available to Ange.

I would say that even a week or two ago we saw balls played into the big vacant spaces where full-backs should be. We saw our central midfielders ahead of play and the opposition running directly at us. City league was won on the high press. I would say City cup was more like last night, especially the second half when we defended that 1-0 lead and played more counters.

I just want to see more and more of this ability to switch between systems as the game dictates. The one size fits all has been the common theme for most of the 18 months, I'm hoping we now see a deliberate expansion of the tactics, and it is just not out of necessity because of the fatigue.

I think Ange could do really well at Spurs, but have always felt he might plateau at some stage at a subtly lower level than we need. If we remove him, it won't be anything like the last 3 or 4 managers. It will be about trying to get from 90 to 100%, not meltdown time.

 

[braineclipse]

I would say that even a week or two ago we saw balls played into the big vacant spaces where full-backs should be. We saw our central midfielders ahead of play and the opposition running directly at us. City league was won on the high press. I would say City cup was more like last night, especially the second half when we defended that 1-0 lead and played more counters.

I just want to see more and more of this ability to switch between systems as the game dictates. The one size fits all has been the common theme for most of the 18 months, I'm hoping we now see a deliberate expansion of the tactics, and it is just not out of necessity because of the fatigue.

I think Ange could do really well at Spurs, but have always felt he might plateau at some stage at a subtly lower level than we need. If we remove him, it won't be anything like the last 3 or 4 managers. It will be about trying to get from 90 to 100%, not meltdown time.

City in the league was perhaps won by the high press, but IIRC we were also pushed deep at times. We also had to be smart defensively in a similar manner. Against Liverpool too we pressed really high and really well in the opening part of the game.

In other games and in other game states we play differently. Again, as we have been doing for some time imo. We're not playing the same way against Liverpool or City as against Forrest.

The balls into space. The running directly at us. It will always be a risk when our press is played through or we're counter attacked, but that risk increases when we're fatigued. Also when the game state is such that we have to chase the game, and we've conceded first a lot this season.

When and how we switch from pressing high, pushing people up (on and off the ball) into a more conservative mode is something that has been an issue and been less of an issue in recent games imo. I think that's the players learning and developing, and somewhat less fatigue. That switch has happened before though and is obviously a part of Angeball.