Ange in or out?

[Muttley]

Where you getting that from? Or is it just hearsay that suits your argument.

I seriously doubt Potter rejected us and turned up at West Ham. Whatever you think of Levy, their owners are much worse.

So what I recall about Potter was that he wasn't interested in Spurs because of the scope of the job. At Brighton, there was a small group of them working as a leadership team. Whilst he was first team manager he was massively involved in things like recruitment, academy oversight etc. Of course, he then when and contradicted that by taking the narrower scope role at Chelsea. It did feel that when Nuno was appointed, Potter turned us down reading between the fuzzy lines. Now when Ange was appointed, I'm less sure.

 

[Batspur]

A lot to unpack here but I seriously doubt that Levy identified Ndombele. He put up the transfer fee and very good wages. That's all you can ask of the chairman. If the player was a flop, that's on other people. Levy did his job.

He is in charge. He employed the people that made the mistakes. He signed everything off.

It's not like it's his first signing fudge up. He's had a quarter of a century to learn from his mistakes.

But here we are.

Again.

Keep defending him though. It just shows you have glaring black hole in who you think is responsible for the mess we are in. You are blinded because of your admiration for him.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

A lot to unpack here but I seriously doubt that Levy identified Ndombele. He put up the transfer fee and very good wages. That's all you can ask of the chairman. If the player was a flop, that's on other people. Levy did his job.

Poch wanted NDombele. Poch did the phone call thing with NDombele to persuade him to join.
Levy backed his manager in this instance. (And before anyone chimes in I know he then sacked Poch anyway).

 

[DubSpur]

This is the essence of failure. How can we spend so much with such brick players? How has this constantly happened for the last quarter of a century? We literally gave away our highest ever signing on a free FFS.

25 years of pretty much brick signings with a few unexpected wins. But the vast majority have been abject failures. That's on one person. The one person who has been in control for a quarter of a century.

The stadium....I could give you a billion pounds and you would have the same outcome as this clown. It's not hard to spend a billion quid and get something good in return. He delivered it 2 years late and 450 million pounds over budget.

That's insane. In the real world the minimum yous get is sacked. More likely you'd be being investigated for corruption.

Complete failure of a man. It's pure nepotism he is where he is.

And on the flip side of Ndombele you have Bale, paid pittance and got a world record transfer fee back in return. If you want to blame him for the negative transfers he also has to get the credit for the positive ones. Or is that not allowed as it doesn't suit your narrative?

The stadium wasn't 450m over budget, the design changed, yes it ran over but not by 450m. And you wouldn't get sacked for that in the real world, go look at any major construction and the vast majority run late and over budget.

And how is it nepotism where he is?

 

[Lilbaz]

Guys there are levy threads and enic threads where you can argue about levy. Try and keep this one about ange.

Basically is he the best man for the job at hand? Or would someone else do better. That should be the question this thread focuses on.

 

[DeanoAustin]

He is in charge. He employed the people that made the mistakes. He signed everything off.

It's not like it's his first signing fudge up. He's had a quarter of a century to learn from his mistakes.

But here we are.

Again.

Keep defending him though. It just shows you have glaring black hole in who you think is responsible for the mess we are in. You are blinded because of your admiration for him.

So anything wrong is Levy’s fault? The minimum requirement for him is perfection? It's hard to have a reasonable conversation if you're that far entrenched.

Berbatov, Eriksen, Carrick, Bale, Modric, Walker, Son, Jan, Toby, Dembele, Lloris - Levy's got some eye for talent to be fair. Should have been a football scout.

For the record, I have my own criticisms of Levy mainly around how financially cautious he is. I personally think him and ENIC have taken us as far as they can and would rather new owners if those owners can push us on. I can still appreciate some of the good work he's done though.

 

[Batspur]

So anything wrong is Levy’s fault? The minimum requirement for him is perfection? It's hard to have a reasonable conversation if you're that far entrenched.

Berbatov, Eriksen, Carrick, Bale, Modric, Walker, Son, Jan, Toby, Dembele, Lloris - Levy's got some eye for talent to be fair. Should have been a football scout.

For the record, I have my own criticisms of Levy mainly around how financially cautious he is. I personally think him and ENIC have taken us as far as they can and would rather new owners if those owners can push us on. I can still appreciate some of the good work he's done though.

Not everything is Levy's fault. Of course not. Hindsight shows us that Poch should never have started Kane in the CL final. On the pitch/game day decisions have nothing to do with him as far as I know.

We have had some great signings. But the majority have been failures. And the time when we did have a great side we went 3 transfer windows without signing anyone.

Something I believe we still haven't caught up with. That's on him.

 

[DeanoAustin]

Not everything is Levy's fault. Of course not. Hindsight shows us that Poch should never have started Kane in the CL final. On the pitch/game day decisions have nothing to do with him as far as I know.

We have had some great signings. But the majority have been failures. And the time when we did have a great side we went 3 transfer windows without signing anyone.

Something I believe we still haven't caught up with. That's on him.

That's not a fact, that's an opinion.

People talk as if they'd have been fine if we'd lost that game and Kane was sat on the bench. Poch would have been destroyed if that happened. Moura was unfortunate to miss out but he wasn't exactly prolific in his time here.

 

[Yiddo]

I was all for backing Ange but its clear as day he is well out of his depth. If he thinks these players coming back from injury are the solution then he is more out of touch than i first thought.

 

[Batspur]

That's not a fact, that's an opinion.

People talk as if they'd have been fine if we'd lost that game and Kane was sat on the bench. Poch would have been destroyed if that happened. Moura was unfortunate to miss out but he wasn't exactly prolific in his time here.

Fair enough. At the time I was clear whatever Poch went with I would be happy and not complain. And I'm not. But facts are Harry was ineffectual in that match and maybe would have been better coming on as an impact sub.

But this isn't a dig at Poch. Back on subject that game should have been a catalyst for us. Instead. And somewhat bizarrely it took us back! That IS on Levy.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

This.

Levy is actually aware of the negative narrative around him which is only growing.

Sticking with Ange in many ways is a win win situation for him, although a negative one for the club.

If he sticks with him and some how our unloveable grumpy aussie grinch somehow turns it around, he can point to how he stuck with him

If in the more likely scenario it all ends in tears, Levy can demonstrate he gave the man a chance and what more could he do

I think that theory falls down somewhat with the fact that that will all count for didley squat if we are in the championship.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

So what I recall about Potter was that he wasn't interested in Spurs because of the scope of the job. At Brighton, there was a small group of them working as a leadership team. Whilst he was first team manager he was massively involved in things like recruitment, academy oversight etc. Of course, he then when and contradicted that by taking the narrower scope role at Chelsea. It did feel that when Nuno was appointed, Potter turned us down reading between the fuzzy lines. Now when Ange was appointed, I'm less sure.

I think the job at Chelsea is just a way of securing your families wealth for the next 3 generations. Hard to turn down when it's only going to be 12/18 months of your life.

 

[RigorMortis]

I think that theory falls down somewhat with the fact that that will all count for didley squat if we are in the championship.

Yes fair point
Should have caveated that Levy’s patience will have limits ( which would be the point where he believes relegation is a real possibility) but I still think given what’s going on, there is credence to what I I wrote

 

[Kompakted]

Poch wanted NDombele. Poch did the phone call thing with NDombele to persuade him to join.
Levy backed his manager in this instance. (And before anyone chimes in I know he then sacked Poch anyway).

Yes it did seem like Poch pushed very hard to sign N'Dombele. I remember rumours that we tried to sign him in 2018 and Poch was photographed by press attending Lyon games. There were also rumours that when Lyon refused to sell Poch was offered the chance to sign Tielemams as an alternative but turned it down to wait for N'Dombele. That decision if true and the failure to land Grealish ultimately led to the infamous "no signings" summer.....

 

[veryoldspur]

This is the essence of failure. How can we spend so much with such brick players? How has this constantly happened for the last quarter of a century? We literally gave away our highest ever signing on a free FFS.

25 years of pretty much brick signings with a few unexpected wins. But the vast majority have been abject failures. That's on one person. The one person who has been in control for a quarter of a century.

The stadium....I could give you a billion pounds and you would have the same outcome as this clown. It's not hard to spend a billion quid and get something good in return. He delivered it 2 years late and 450 million pounds over budget.

That's insane. In the real world the minimum yous get is sacked. More likely you'd be being investigated for corruption.

Complete failure of a man. It's pure nepotism he is where he is.

I don't want to sound like I am defending Levy, I simply want to be objective.
1. I don't believe our players are poor, I think they are being managed badly.
2. Yes, we have only one won trophy in 25 years, and Levy/Enic are the common denominator, however determining why they are responsible is difficult. 3rd biggest net spender in the last 5 years. OK, our recruitment hasn't been brilliant, but Levy doesn't choose the players.
3. The complexities behind building a stadium are immense, so don't underestimate it
4. You want Levy sacked, well who's going to sack him? He is the 2nd biggest share holder, and he makes large profits for Jack Walker. If he doesn't step down he won't get sacked, end of!

We are in a dreadful situation at the moment, and there is one thing I can promise you, if Levy walks away tomorrow nothing will change for the short to medium term. However, if Ange gets sacked and we get in a manager who knows what he is doing, things may well change quite quickly

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Yes fair point
Should have caveated that Levy’s patience will have limits ( which would be the point where he believes relegation is a real possibility) but I still think given what’s going on, there is credence to what I I wrote

Indeed there was.
I think he's probably looking at the game calendar and working out various 'strike' points depending how results (and probably the injury situation) are going.

I think it's generally thought any new man needs 10 games?

I suppose if we get past Liverpool though...he'd almost have to give Ange the final BUT what if our league form is still a disaster??

 

[Batspur]

I don't want to sound like I am defending Levy, I simply want to be objective.
1. I don't believe our players are poor, I think they are being managed badly.
2. Yes, we have only one won trophy in 25 years, and Levy/Enic are the common denominator, however determining why they are responsible is difficult. 3rd biggest net spender in the last 5 years. OK, our recruitment hasn't been brilliant, but Levy doesn't choose the players.
3. The complexities behind building a stadium are immense, so don't underestimate it
4. You want Levy sacked, well who's going to sack him? He is the 2nd biggest share holder, and he makes large profits for Jack Walker. If he doesn't step down he won't get sacked, end of!

We are in a dreadful situation at the moment, and there is one thing I can promise you, if Levy walks away tomorrow nothing will change for the short to medium term. However, if Ange gets sacked and we get in a manager who knows what he is doing, things may well change quite quickly

If levy did leave, which he won't. The taps would be turned on immediately. We've got cash to burn. 300 million is stadium name rights for one.

 

[veryoldspur]

Indeed there was.
I think he's probably looking at the game calendar and working out various 'strike' points depending how results (and probably the injury situation) are going.

I think it's generally thought any new man needs 10 games?

I suppose if we get past Liverpool though...he'd almost have to give Ange the final BUT what if our league form is still a disaster??

Believe me, we won't get past Liverpool so it isn't a concern. I expect Liverpool to be 1-0 up after a few minutes, and 3-0 by half time.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Believe me, we won't get past Liverpool so it isn't a concern. I expect Liverpool to be 1-0 up after a few minutes, and 3-0 by half time.

You grumpy old git

 

[Glenda's Legs]

If levy did leave, which he won't. The taps would be turned on immediately. We've got cash to burn. 300 million is stadium name rights for one.

If Levy steps back, what makes you think the investment or spending strategy would be any different? ENIC will still own the club.