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Ange’s system / formation

Baleforce said:
If he had the same issue at Celtic and fixed it, couldn’t we have started with the patched version?
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Different players, different coaching staff, different environment, different league.

Things aren't as easy as many experts on here would have you believe.
 
Lemonade Money said:
Even if it were only different players, they still need time to learn from their mistakes to perfect the system.
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Yeah and that takes time
It’s rare for many things to be fixed mid season
And I’d say if we had more games to try different things it’s possible it may have lead to some different outcomes
 
Mikey10 said:
Indeed - although a worrying direction of travel, especially since we’ve had more or less a full squad to pick from in most of that time period.
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It’s first season syndrome
Many other coaches have had it at bigger clubs than ours
We haven’t actually had a fit squad by the way as we haven’t had a striker in the squad since Richy got injured

If it’s any consolation a new manager at Bournemouth had a mare of a start but now has set a club record for points in this division, and is starting from January I believe they are 4th (I think that’s what I heard on a pod)
As I’ve said previously if you flipped the form around and we were finishing the season the way we started everyone would be calling Ange a miracle worker

If it’s like this next season then I think it’s fair game to be worried. If the form continues it’s not a good look at all IMO


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Bullet said:
You guys are discussing a set piece coach that was let go.

Gianni Vio only coached attacking set pieces.

The defensive set pieces were coached by Stellini, and none of you want him back.
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Wish I could like this twice.
 
DubaiSpur said:
True. But equally, our team when Poch took over was arguably weaker than the team we have now. We were starting games with a back four of Rose-Verts-Fazio-Dier, against Udogie-VdV-Romero-Porro now - to put it in context, the first back line cost a total of 25m, the second comes in at roughly 170m. Ange has had better tools to work with.



The issue mate, is that the more time we've had, the worse we look. This is borne out just by statistics - the first 10 games saw us garner 26 points. The next 23 have seen us garner just 34 - for context, United, who are universally being panned for having a disaster season, have picked up 39 in that time. With an injury list comparable to ours. If we were improving on the pitch, there would be no cause for concern - but that hasn't really happened after the bright start.


Yes, but this is true of all managers, everywhere. Give them their first choice pieces and they'll do well. To me, the true skill of a manager lies in achieving results with what he has to hand - Ange has been pretty up and down on this score.



'Incredibly impressive' feels a little unwarranted imo. He's done reasonably well, but as I said, even a comparison with 14/15 Poch indicates that others have been put in similar situations and done more, with less.



My last point on the pre-season - this entire season we've had free midweeks for the team to be drilled in Postecoglou's system. Arguably, we've had far more time to train in his system across the eight months of this season, than we will have in the summer where it's just four-five weeks of mainly fitness work. Yet, this has done us little good - we had two weeks to prep for Arsenal while they played four games in that span, and yet they were 3-0 up at halftime.

The more time we've had to train in this system, the worse we have gotten.

I have to underline, I'm not advocating we sack the guy or anything crazy like that. But I think rose tinted glasses are leading to an overestimation of the job he's done so far - which has been reasonably good, but really nothing spectacular, imo.
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I think inconsistency is to expected at this point.

I think weaknesses that will sometimes lead to poor spells as those weaknesses are exploited is to be expected.

Pochettino had some things more difficult to deal with and some things easier. I think Ange has dealt with a lot of real problems really well. He has us plsy
 
braineclipse said:
I think inconsistency is to expected at this point.

I think weaknesses that will sometimes lead to poor spells as those weaknesses are exploited is to be expected.

Pochettino had some things more difficult to deal with and some things easier. I think Ange has dealt with a lot of real problems really well. He has us plsy
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With the way we play I also think there is a stark reality, more than other seasons, that those on the bench offering cover have no future here, so how reliable that cover is comes into question.

That's a consequence of Ange his first season open heart surgery and for how quick he gets to the issues, the consequence is those others will be left behind more than eith other managers
 
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Think we also need to accept that progress with Ange may not be linear. A lot of people expected that the first 10 games would become the norm for us under Ange once we had all our players back. That really isn't the case and is a mad expectation when you look at what he inherited and the quality of opposition. We may have other good spells followed by lulls.

I'm very dubious about his ability to be really successful here but I have to say, big picture, he's exceeded my expectations for the season and wildly exceeded my expectations on the off-field stuff. That's good enough for me to stick with him, support him and hope that my misgivings are wrong.

Next season, he finishes top 6 again, he'll have done well, top 4 he'll have done amazing. If he finishes top 8/10, as long as there isn't mutiny in the squad, I think he'll deserve a third season.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Think we also need to accept that progress with Ange may not be linear. A lot of people expected that the first 10 games would become the norm for us under Ange once we had all our players back. That really isn't the case and is a mad expectation when you look at what he inherited and the quality of opposition. We may have other good spells followed by lulls.

I'm very dubious about his ability to be really successful here but I have to say, big picture, he's exceeded my expectations for the season and wildly exceeded my expectations on the off-field stuff. That's good enough for me to stick with him, support him and hope that my misgivings are wrong.

Next season, he finishes top 6 again, he'll have done well, top 4 he'll have done amazing. If he finishes top 8/10, as long as there isn't mutiny in the squad, I think he'll deserve a third season.
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I'm very sceptical of any manager making us really successful.
We will be successful within our parameters, but consistently winning titles or CLs is not within our means.
All we can do position ourselves to be the best in those odd years where city in particular slip up.
Liverpool, utd, Chelsea and if they don't win the PL this season even IMHO arsenal are going to have a struggle the next few years, we should be looking to capatitalise on this.
That with the odd F A, EL or league cup every couple of years would be the best we can hope for.
I see no reason why Ange can't do that.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Next season, he finishes top 6 again, he'll have done well, top 4 he'll have done amazing. If he finishes top 8/10, as long as there isn't mutiny in the squad, I think he'll deserve a third season.
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I doubt he’d survive an 8th -10th finish at the end of his second season, tbh; particularly if we finish top 5 or 6 this season.
 
Mikey10 said:
I doubt he’d survive an 8th -10th finish at the end of his second season, tbh; particularly if we finish top 5 or 6 this season.
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He probably wouldn’t but, personally, I’d give him the time unless there were some exceptional circumstances.

You can’t assume that just because we finish in a position this season that anything less than that next season will be sackable failure IMO. Progress is not always linear.
 
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