Danny Rose

[DubaiSpur]

Marquee signings to placate the fans. At least until their first loss to a lower half team.

Özil and Sanchez are somewhat comparable to VDV for us. No longer wanted at a big club, but well known. Too bad for them that Özil is a lazy fecker.

Since they signed Ozil and Sanchez, they have won three FA Cups and (I think) a couple of Community Shields, while finishing 4th, 3rd, 2nd and finally 5th.

That line of argument presumes that we never lose to lower-half teams, or are some sort of competitive Bayern-esque machine sweeping all before us to the point where signings like Sanchez and Ozil aren't necessary and we can go with the 'Gilles Sunu - Amaury Bischoff - Calum Chambers' approach to team-building.

None of those things are true.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Just confirmed it was an interview this week and he knew it would be released today

 

[DubaiSpur]

Mate I don't disagree with the logic of any of his points at all. I totally get them. But I support Spurs, and this interview was designed to serve Danny Rose and his agents, and destabilise the club I love. If any fans buy into it, they are giving the people against the club what they want, and that sucks. It is purely designed to split the fan base and worded in such a way that we will have sympathy. We either fall for it or we get behind the club we support. Of course we want progress.

I heavily, *heavily* disagree. Like I said, these things were being said, and *loudly*, *long* before Rose opened his gob. They needed to be said - the execution was despicable, but the need was there.

Not judging your intentions at all, mate, but there is an equal danger to sweeping criticisms of our approach and this damned window under the rug because suddenly it's going against the club we support. It's too easy to do that - to say that Rose is 100% wrong because he's only trying to engineer a move for himself (which he probably is). But that is morally wrong too, imo.

 

[Jordinho]

Since they signed Ozil and Sanchez, they have won three FA Cups and (I think) a couple of Community Shields, while finishing 4th, 3rd, 2nd and finally 5th.

That line of argument presumes that we never lose to lower-half teams, or are some sort of competitive Bayern-esque machine sweeping all before us to the point where signings like Sanchez and Ozil aren't necessary and we can go with the 'Gilles Sunu - Amaury Bischoff - Calum Chambers' approach to team-building.

None of those things are true.

Arsenal's fan base are a bunch of muppets just waiting for something to moan about.

We are already far down the road of Calum Chambers and it's working pretty well. Where Arsenal went wrong is that they put these kids on massive wages before they had proven themselves.

The key is to find players that are undervalued and usually that means buying potential rather than mega club offcasts.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Arsenal's fan base are a bunch of muppets just waiting for something to moan about.

We are already far down the road of Calum Chambers and it's working pretty well. Where Arsenal went wrong is that they put these kids on massive wages before they had proven themselves.

The key is to find players that are undervalued and usually that means buying potential rather than mega club offcasts.

Again, if you look at Arsenal's eleven years from 2006 to today, their recent upswing in terms of winning things and not finishing 4th all the time (prior to finishing 5th, anyway) came *after* they had signed Sanchez, Ozil and these other mega club offcasts, not before.

We are not far down that 'Calum Chambers' road - Alli, Rose and Walker would be the three I could feasibly compare to Chambers, and of those, one is gone and one is going. Other than that, out of our first eleven (before this damned window began) of Lloris, Walker, Toby, Jan, Rose, Wanyama, Dembele, Eriksen, Son, Alli and Kane - seven of those players were bought, and all were highly rated *before* they were bought. They weren't randos.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

That is all well and good but how will get out the best out of the likes of Dele, Dier and Eriksen when they know all they have to do is rock the boat and they get a move they want? If you sell Walker and Rose and not replace them with players who are as good we will only make other key players disillusioned.

Some of the team probably thought 'who the f.ck' when dele and dier turned up a couple of seasons ago.

The point being times change and (apart from at the very top of the market) there is little correlation between price and performance.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I heavily, *heavily* disagree. Like I said, these things were being said, and *loudly*, *long* before Rose opened his gob. They needed to be said - the execution was despicable, but the need was there.

Not judging your intentions at all, mate, but there is an equal danger to sweeping criticisms of our approach and this damned window under the rug because suddenly it's going against the club we support. It's too easy to do that - to say that Rose is 100% wrong because he's only trying to engineer a move for himself (which he probably is). But that is morally wrong too, imo.

Why do they need to be said? Do you think Levy doesn't listen to the players? Or do you think Poch won't put his thoughts to Levy? Or do you think Levy is unaware of both the advantages and disadvantages of our approach?

This all could have been done behind closed doors. Looking back, Walker got what he wanted but ultimately he did it in a respectful way and behind closed doors, and our form continued. Rose has gone public on the eve of the season, and why? Did it really need to be said? Has Rose really delivered some stunning insight that anyone with a modicum of football knowledge wasn't aware of? Utterly self serving, there is not one part of Rose that is doing this because he wants to see the club 'do better' IMO, and In fact some of his points are totally illogical and go against obvious history. I don't think he believes half of it. He's entirely out for himself.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Some of the team probably thought 'who the f.ck' when dele and dier turned up a couple of seasons ago.

The point being times change and (apart from at the very top of the market) there is little correlation between price and performance.

Some of the team probably thought 'who the f.ck' when Fazio and Stambouli turned up in 2014, and they were proven 100% right in their assessment. It's not as black and white as that - and it will always be the case that you would want to see a Neymar come in over a literal 'who?' signing, however good the latter may turn out to be. The players and the fans aren't so different in that regard.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

DO you mean the bad days of the mid 1990s with Vega and co? I remember them well. I also know that last season I saw the best Spurs team I have seen in my lifetime and I would rather we not break it up just yet, particularly if we are not going to replace the players we sell with better players

Have you not read anything that others have posted............We sell Walker and Rose how do you propose we finance the purchase and wages of two players that are better than them.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Some of the team probably thought 'who the f.ck' when Fazio and Stambouli turned up in 2014, and they were proven 100% right in their assessment. It's not as black and white as that - and it will always be the case that you would want to see a Neymar come in over a literal 'who?' signing, however good the latter may turn out to be. The players and the fans aren't so different in that regard.

And I'm sure people thought the same about Rose, Walker, Dier, Dele, Son, Kane. These players were developed. But Rose fully knows that. He knows the illogical nature of what he is saying, but it doesn't matter because he's trying to serve himself.

 

[Grays_1890]

And I'm sure people thought the same about Rose, Walker, Dier, Dele, Son, Kane. These players were developed. But Rose fully knows that. He knows the illogical nature of what he is saying, but it doesn't matter because he's trying to serve himself.

Hahaha you know what this is exactly right, Rose is describing himself in his criticism and he is too thick to see that the fcuking macaron

 

[DubaiSpur]

Why do they need to be said? Do you think Levy doesn't listen to the players? Or do you think Poch won't put his thoughts to Levy? Or do you think Levy is unaware of both the advantages and disadvantages of our approach?

This all could have been done behind closed doors. Looking back, Walker got what he wanted but ultimately he did it in a respectful way and behind closed doors, and our form continued. Rose has gone public on the eve of the season, and why? Did it really need to be said? Has Rose really delivered some stunning insight that anyone with a modicum of football knowledge wasn't aware of? Utterly self serving, there is not one part of Rose that is doing this because he wants to see the club 'do better' IMO, and In fact some of his points are totally illogical and go against obvious history. I don't think he believes half of it. He's entirely out for himself.

It was said behind closed doors. Rose was harping about some of this in a 5Live interivew back in *May*, if I recall correctly - this isn't new. And, as he mentions himself, he's brought it up with Levy, Poch and the squad as a whole quite frequently.

What's changed is that he's said it out in the open now - but it isn't like he was mum about it before.

As for it needing to be said, from the perspective of saying it out in public to the Sun - no, it should 100% not have happened this way. But, deep down, he's only saying what a lot of the fans know to be true - which is why I mentioned that his points were reasonable to begin with.

Is he being underpaid relative to players of his calibre? Yes.
Is it likely that players like him will leave if we win nothing and continue to pay them low wages? Yes.
Is the squad weaker now than it was when the season ended? Yes.
Do we need some top quality players to improve the squad? Yes.
Are the fans utter hypocrites and f*cking tools for slagging off Rose when he was awful and praising him when he was good? Yes, because they haven't learned from that experience and still slag off Sissoko like nothing's happened.

We have been making these points back and forth at various times over the course of the off-season - the fans have been discussing this stuff for ages. So the surprise that a player shares these opinions seems to be overblown - the only regret is that it was said out loud in such a transparently self-serving way.

 

[Grays_1890]

Some of the team probably thought 'who the f.ck' when Fazio and Stambouli turned up in 2014, and they were proven 100% right in their assessment. It's not as black and white as that - and it will always be the case that you would want to see a Neymar come in over a literal 'who?' signing, however good the latter may turn out to be. The players and the fans aren't so different in that regard.

So being reasonable then who would you sign and who would make way? Outside of Walker

You think although Rose with a point was ok to go to the Sun and drag the club through the mud when in fact in the last 5 years we have been a great example of how to run a club? A judgement made BY LITERALLY ALL EX PRO's and PUNDITS who said we were the example to live by?????

 

[Jordinho]

Again, if you look at Arsenal's eleven years from 2006 to today, their recent upswing in terms of winning things and not finishing 4th all the time (prior to finishing 5th, anyway) came *after* they had signed Sanchez, Ozil and these other mega club offcasts, not before.

We are not far down that 'Calum Chambers' road - Alli, Rose and Walker would be the three I could feasibly compare to Chambers, and of those, one is gone and one is going. Other than that, out of our first eleven (before this damned window began) of Lloris, Walker, Toby, Jan, Rose, Wanyama, Dembele, Eriksen, Son, Alli and Kane - seven of those players were bought, and all were highly rated *before* they were bought. They weren't randos.

I'd add players like Dier, Davies, Trippier and others that have moved on like Huddlestone and Naughton.

Highly rated (but not enough to interest the richest clubs) or just promising players from clubs abroad. Sounds a lot like what Wenger did when Arsenal were still winning league titles.

 

[Jordinho]

Hahaha you know what this is exactly right, Rose is describing himself in his criticism and he is too thick to see that the fcuking macaron

I can see Barca coming in for him and all their players going "wow, we signed Danny Rose".

 

[DubaiSpur]

And I'm sure people thought the same about Rose, Walker, Dier, Dele, Son, Kane. These players were developed. But Rose fully knows that. He knows the illogical nature of what he is saying, but it doesn't matter because he's trying to serve himself.

Son? 22.5m, from a CL team who were doing better than we were at the time.

Rose, Walker, Dier, Dele, Kane? See Fazio, Stambouli, N'jie, DeAndre Yedlin, Zeki Fryers, and innumerable academy products (from Caulker to Parrett) that we all thought were going to be the next breakout stars but who ended up falling far short of that goal.

It is not as black and white as 'cheap punts have been good for us.' Never was.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

How do Ozil, Sanchez and Lacazette fit into that interpretation of Wenger's actions?

As for kids coming through, Kane and Winks. That's two. Everyone else in our first eleven + backup eleven was bought. Where is this massively superior record with our youth over our signings?

.

Purchased during those disastrous transfer windows we keep having? Eh?

 

[billyiddo]

Walker pays for it this season, Rose next, and keep bringing through the kids. Repeat.

As of now the only 'kid' we have brought through from the academy at the level we require is Kane - we can't realistically bank on that being a way to replace our star players, if we manage to supplement the squad with several academy players then we will be doing well - but as a plan to rely on our academy for first team players atm is fanciful if we want to be at the top

 

[DubaiSpur]

So being reasonable then who would you sign and who would make way? Outside of Walker

You think although Rose with a point was ok to go to the Sun and drag the club through the mud when in fact in the last 5 years we have been a great example of how to run a club? A judgement made BY LITERALLY ALL EX PRO's and PUNDITS who said we were the example to live by?????

Here is a current pro who thinks differently. And I seriously don't think all pundits are in agreement about how we run things - Carragher has pointed out that we haven't won anything at all to justify our optimism, and the legion of armchair speculators from Merson to Shearer have derided us for our lack of spending as much as they've praised us for what we've done.

Only Gary Neville really seems to think we've done everything right - and I disagree with him there.

As for Rose going to the S*n, I wrote a long post yesterday explaining why what he did was wrong - not going to go over that again. But what he did and the truth in what he says are two different things.

 

[Jordinho]

Son? 22.5m, from a CL team who were doing better than we were at the time.

Rose, Walker, Dier, Dele, Kane? See Fazio, Stambouli, N'jie, DeAndre Yedlin, Zeki Fryers, and innumerable academy products (from Caulker to Parrett) that we all thought were going to be the next breakout stars but who ended up falling far short of that goal.

It is not as black and white as 'cheap punts have been good for us.' Never was.

Do you expect every signing to be a success?

They all played a part while they were here (maybe not Fryers, but we can blame Sherwood for having to suffer him), whether it was as starters or just backups, and we made money from the vast majority when we sold them. Money that has been reinvested in new signings. Some will work out, most won't.