Jose Mourinho - SACKED

[Gazza]

Sorry, I don't buy it.
You're saying it is a club thing? Lack of hunger affects players here? Jesus...
You're forcing me to say it, so I will.
Under Pochettino we climbed from mediocrity to a top 10 world club, consistent top 4, consistent title challengers and CL Finalists. All whilst spending two seasons away from a home stadium. All under a tight budget. We won countless big games, and I cannot remember if it was you or someone who said "well he had more games in his tenure"...the thing about it is, he CREATED more big games by making more games mean more because we were competing for real trophies!!!

Bale? He was ALWAYS going to need special management, bespoke, an arm around the shoulder and a reminder he is still quality. I don't like Redknapp but he would absolutely get more out of Bale (again, I don't like him and I will not forget when he nearly gave up on him).

All this meteorology stuff...you need to be a unit. You need to be a family. Look at Klopp, they'd fudging die for him because he is not just a leader of men, he genuinely shows warmth and respect to his squad. OGS - who BTW I always felt long term was their answer once they'd given him the job- is starting to reap some reward. Rodgers, even though he's a Brent, same thing, he runs it like a family.

Mourinho runs it like a family, but the sort of family where you're going to be a doctor or lawyer, and if you want to be an artist or an actor you can fudge off or stay quiet because that's not his way. It is who he is (I would agree my metaphor is nothing more than conjecture, but the rest stands true IMO).

It's great he's having nice chats with Dele, but he should've been having them before. That is his job!

The meteorology thing is such a tired, tired argument.

Were you raised by an Asian family? Interesting metaphor.

Jose breeds a winning mentality with players that are up for it, the weak are sold out frozen out. Perhaps he needs to adapt but I wouldn't question his man management being a serial winner that he is.

 

[thfcsteff]

I dont see how Dele fits into a Mourinho team, either positionally or work-rate. I hope he stays and a new manager tries to get him back to his best

It will require Mourinho adjusting I agree. I think he needs too. Egos aside.

 

[thfcsteff]

Were you raised by an Asian family? Interesting metaphor.

Jose breeds a winning meteorology with players that are up for it, the weak are sold out frozen out. Perhaps he needs to adapt but I wouldn't question his man management being a serial winner that he is.

Before I respond any further you'll need to explain that to me. It sits -shall we say- poorly?!!!

 

[AdamB]

It will require Mourinho adjusting I agree. I think he needs too. Egos aside.

....and thats our biggest problem. Mourinho is too stubborn and old to change. His tactics are set and, just like happened at Utd, won't change. Its just a matter of time before he's fired, and I just hope that its sooner rather than later

 

[Gazza]

Dele absolutely bears a heap of responsibility, no argument. But it is the manager's job to get him playing. You do not let talent like that sit and waste away. FWIW dele was mustard when Mourinho first came in, but he is not a player who functions well with launches forward and everyone behind the ball. Play to strengths.

Ndombele? Sorry, I think the player takes most of the responsibility, and Sissoko/Aurier too for helping him through. Mourinho obviously contributed, but to suggest he is the reason Ndombele is where he is right now would be grossly inaccurate IMO.

I think your bold-face above is the direction. We all want this. Generational talent.

Well whatever and whoever is responsible for Ndombeles turn around can we give it to Dele too. I cant understand why Dele cannot be Mourinhos Fat Frank. Hopefully dele can train like a demon and burst back on the scene. He has not been the same since his place got robbed. That can take years to recover from football player or not.

 

[Gazza]

Before I respond any further you'll need to explain that to me. It sits -shall we say- poorly?!!!

Lol I shall, I'm of Asian heritage and its a running joke amongst my friends both Asian and non Asian.... parents say... when you grow up ... YOU WILL BE A DOCTOR, LAWYER OR BUSINESSMAN !

 

[Gazza]

I dont see how Dele fits into a Mourinho team, either positionally or work-rate. I hope he stays and a new manager tries to get him back to his best

Well increase the work rate thats half the battle and a start. Work your nuts off for 60 mins if thats all he has in the tank ...

 

[thfcsteff]

Lol I shall, I'm of Asian heritage and its a running joke amongst my friends both Asian and non Asian.... parents say... when you grow up ... YOU WILL BE A DOCTOR, LAWYER OR BUSINESSMAN !

Got it. That's why I asked mate, can never be sure of the reason behind a question and did not want to jump to a conclusion.

No, I wasn't running along those lines at all, just personality types TBH. In fact, the example I best know close to me would be Irish family (not mine, my wife's) where there was a perceived necessity to "be" one of those (or in the case of the sons, priests too!) and it did not go well for most.

p.s. My Mum was born in Wexford, my Dad in Tehran, me in London!

 

[Benny_Lad]

I dont see how Dele fits into a Mourinho team, either positionally or work-rate. I hope he stays and a new manager tries to get him back to his best

Work rate? Have I missed something? When he played he worked as hard as anyone and it was regularly reported that he’d covered the most ground in games.

 

[thfcsteff]

Well increase the work rate thats half the battle and a start. Work your nuts off for 60 mins if thats all he has in the tank ...

Thing is, Dele was always one of our smartest defensive players too, always knew the positions to be to cut out even a sniff of danger. There has clearly been a breakdown, and again there player is far, far from blameless for sure...but this is the manager's job now and he must make it work.

 

[Gazza]

Thing is, Dele was always one of our smartest defensive players too, always knew the positions to be to cut out even a sniff of danger. There has clearly been a breakdown, and again there player is far, far from blameless for sure...but this is the manager's job now and he must make it work.

Perhaps for the majority of his time at Spurs. I watched him a decent amount at MK dons and he was a bagasse box to box midfield player that could break late into the box and mop up or run with the ball and shoot from distance.

I think Dele has the ability to be whatever he wants to be, and in todays case, here and now he has to find a way to get on the pitch and make it count.

If it means running around, doing some of the dog work then so be it. I'm sure he has realised that he is happier playing on the pitch in whatever capacity vs being shunned.

I didn't think Ndombele could tackle or track back, now he is popping up all over the pitch in pockets.... something Dele is well capable of.

 

[billyiddo]

Perhaps for the majority of his time at Spurs. I watched him a decent amount at MK dons and he was a bagasse box to box midfield player that could break late into the box and mop up or run with the ball and shoot from distance.

I think Dele has the ability to be whatever he wants to be, and in todays case, here and now he has to find a way to get on the pitch and make it count.

If it means running around, doing some of the dog work then so be it. I'm sure he has realised that he is happier playing on the pitch in whatever capacity vs being shunned.

I didn't think Ndombele could tackle or track back, now he is popping up all over the pitch in pockets.... something Dele is well capable of.

Dele over seasons 3 and 4 of his time here was certainly no shirker of his defensive responsibilities - @scaramanga posted a good article about in the Dele thread a while back. The black mark against him was always his tendency to give the ball away in a frustrating manner.

 

[parklane1]

Who, currently, should take the most responsibility then mate? If not the manager, who?

Been over this before, against Brighton the other night we had ( at various times) 10 of the of the players who helped get Poch the sack were on the field. The concenus when Poch went from some was that it was the players who got him sacked by downing tools, Jose seemed to have got them playing again earlier in the season but they have reverted to the same actions again.

Has Jose made mistakes? of course he has just like ALL managers do but the players have to take the responsibility on there shoulders as well, they did it under Poch after all.

 

[Diamond Lights]

Dele been brick for a few years and i've slated him a fair bit, but he can do a role in this team because it's a terribly poor attacking team that needs help.

However, Dele has link up play, quick passes, short 1-2's etc and we don't play that way now (as evidenced by the quick passes visual shared a few pages before).

 

[thfcsteff]

Been over this before, against Brighton the other night we had ( at various times) 10 of the of the players who helped get Poch the sack were on the field. The concenus when Poch went from some was that it was the players who got him sacked by downing tools, Jose seemed to have got them playing again earlier in the season but they have reverted to the same actions again.

Has Jose made mistakes? of course he has just like ALL managers do but the players have to take the responsibility on there shoulders as well, they did it under Poch after all.

OK, let's break it down.


Lloris - Poch
Sissoko - Poch
Sanchez - Poch
(Vinicius 45 - Mou)
Alderweireld - Poch
Rodon - Mou
Davies - Poch
Ndombele - Poch
(Lamela 74 - AVB)
Hojbjerg - Mou
Bale - Mou
Son - Poch
Begwijn - Mou


So, 7 Poch-era players and 5 Mou era players.

Let's forget about small details like Poch getting 5 minutes to utilize the first MAJOR signing he ever demanded and got, or Mourinho being "given" Bale when it is possible that was a Levy love affair...

2 player difference by your metric.

What is the one thing you do as a manager when possible? You set up a team to strengths, that means players in positions they're comfortable, especially defensive players.
Where did Sissoko play?
Where did Davies play?
Where did Sanchez play?

Already you have players in key areas (especially given how Mourinho styles) playing in uncomfortable positions. Sissoko as a wing-back is simply untenable. It imbalances the entire side. Sanchez behind him in a three? Wow. Already our right side looks like a rice paper lampshade in a hurricane.

If Bale refuses to play as a target man, given how out of form he is, with such a vital game why not select the back-up CF you/your agent foisted upon the club?

There's more to say but I have to go right now...needless to say, blame the players all you want, and yes they share some responsibility, but the leadership right now is poor and decisions poor from it IMO.

 

[Bishop]

Been over this before, against Brighton the other night we had ( at various times) 10 of the of the players who helped get Poch the sack were on the field. The concenus when Poch went from some was that it was the players who got him sacked by downing tools, Jose seemed to have got them playing again earlier in the season but they have reverted to the same actions again.

Has Jose made mistakes? of course he has just like ALL managers do but the players have to take the responsibility on there shoulders as well, they did it under Poch after all.

This myth is becoming more and more played out as truth. The players didn't let Poch down they were just lower quality than what we had previously. Toby and Jan declined physically, Walker was sold, Rose got the bad injury. Demebele was finished physically, Wanyama destroyed his knees. That the heart and foundation of the side. The problem wasn't mentality or letting Poch down the problems was our squad players became our starters.

The only player that can be accused of letting it go mentally was Eriksen and for reasons we all know about. But to claim they let Poch down and are now letting Mou down is inaccurate. The end of the Poch era till now is their level. This is the truth of the side after it was allowed to stagnate.

 

[parklane1]

OK, let's break it down.


Lloris - Poch
Sissoko - Poch
Sanchez - Poch
(Vinicius 45 - Mou)
Alderweireld - Poch
Rodon - Mou
Davies - Poch
Ndombele - Poch
(Lamela 74 - AVB)
Hojbjerg - Mou
Bale - Mou
Son - Poch
Begwijn - Mou


So, 7 Poch-era players and 5 Mou era players.

Let's forget about small details like Poch getting 5 minutes to utilize the first MAJOR signing he ever demanded and got, or Mourinho being "given" Bale when it is possible that was a Levy love affair...

2 player difference by your metric.

What is the one thing you do as a manager when possible? You set up a team to strengths, that means players in positions they're comfortable, especially defensive players.
Where did Sissoko play?
Where did Davies play?
Where did Sanchez play?

Already you have players in key areas (especially given how Mourinho styles) playing in uncomfortable positions. Sissoko as a wing-back is simply untenable. It imbalances the entire side. Sanchez behind him in a three? Wow. Already our right side looks like a rice paper lampshade in a hurricane.

If Bale refuses to play as a target man, given how out of form he is, with such a vital game why not select the back-up CF you/your agent foisted upon the club?

There's more to say but I have to go right now...needless to say, blame the players all you want, and yes they share some responsibility, but the leadership right now is poor and decisions poor from it IMO.

And you can ( and do) blame Jose for all our ills, listen we could go round and round the garden with our opposite views and never agree over this. I said in my earlier post that Jose has made mistakes ALL managers do, i loved Poch almost as much as you and i was against his sacking and thought he should have been given more time but he has gone and as i say most of the players who got on the pitch the other night were here under him.

They helped get the best manager we have had since KB sacked and that was said by a lot of fans when Poch went, and they seem to be doing the same here. So to end i do blame some of the players ( they have form for it)
but i also accept that Jose is not faultless in this either. IMO

 

[Jurgen the German]

What do people think the threshold will be for Levy getting rid of Jose before the start of next season? Personally I’d say if we miss Europe entirely then he’s gone regardless of how we do in the cups. I think he’ll be on thin ice even if we miss out on top 4 and finish below teams like Leicester, Everton and West Ham. Levy seems star stuck by Jose but he will not take kindly if we’re not in any European competition next season.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

What do people think the threshold will be for Levy getting rid of Jose before the start of next season? Personally I’d say if we miss Europe entirely then he’s gone regardless of how we do in the cups. I think he’ll be on thin ice even if we miss out on top 4 and finish below teams like Leicester, Everton and West Ham. Levy seems star stuck by Jose but he will not take kindly if we’re not in any European competition next season.

Not in Europe he is deffo done IMO
I think the expectation is CL still but Europe is a minimum

 

[billyiddo]

What do people think the threshold will be for Levy getting rid of Jose before the start of next season? Personally I’d say if we miss Europe entirely then he’s gone regardless of how we do in the cups. I think he’ll be on thin ice even if we miss out on top 4 and finish below teams like Leicester, Everton and West Ham. Levy seems star stuck by Jose but he will not take kindly if we’re not in any European competition next season.

our next 7 games are interesting

Chelsea H
West Brom H
Everton FA CUP A
Emirates Marketing Project A
Wolfsberger EL A
West Ham A
Wolfsberger EL H

if it goes badly then it's a season ender really and potentially a decision would have to be made. on the flip side we could come through it still in the hunt for 3 trophies and top 4 well and truly on.