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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)
- Thread starter SpurMeUp
- Start date
It's okay to lie, as long as they are the ones doing it.
It might be comforting to blame the tories, but we are not and have not been suffering from long tory, we've been suffering from long financial crash. There was not a major party in 2010 that was not aligned in the painful economic consequences required. Alastair Darling, the Labour Chancellor said there would be two Parliaments of pain if he retained office. The Tories of course didn't govern on their own when implementing the austerity measures. So it would not have mattered who was sat in no. 10 and no. 11 for the last 14 years, the result would have been the same. And of course, just as we had got ourselves into a position where the economy had almost righted itself fully, we were hit by Covid and the war in Ukraine.
The other thing, however, is that tax rises don't necessarily result in a rise in revenue. They make the activity being taxed less attractive, so it's an equation of whether you hit the sweet spot or whether getting a greater % of activity in tax actually leaves you poorer due to the decline in the taxable activity.
If the rise in NICS results in lower wages and less jobs it may not generate any revenue for example - and could lead to falls in revenue across the board as income tax take drops and people have less money to spend so VAT revenues also fall. The govt. have already been warned that their policies on non doms, private schools and private equity are unlikely to raise any additional revenue and could cost them revenue - they're playing around at the edges of the tax system trying to target very wealthy and big business, but those tax payers are the most reactive and the most adept at avoiding tax.
If you want to raise taxes and have a good chance of increasing revenue - you need to hit the taxes that generate the majority of revenue - income tax, VAT etc. But even then you could end up with nothing or worse.
People have got to stop seeing taxation as a means of raising money - its a means of taking money out of the economy. It is pretty simple really.- if you increase income tax for example, you'll initially be getting more money, but now people have less money so they spend less. So VAT revenue starts to fall. Businesses like retailers and restaurants take the hit in less custom so corporation tax revenues started to fall. They might start letting staff go, so unemployment goes up and income tax revenue starts to fall, even though it's higher. Benefit spending increases. You now have no money, for the NHS, congratulations.
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So answer the question. You said you wanted a “proper debate” that means answering direct questions that are asked of you.
Answer the last question I asked.
Don’t dodge it, I’m willing to discuss any of the points that you want to raise and any of the questions you ask. So answer mine.
Loads of people on here have said you dodge questions. It certainly seems like you do at least based on our exchanges. Are they all wrong, and you are right? Do you really believe that you are that Exceptional? Like seriously?
If so you must be a hugely successful individual, multi millionaire, completely happy family, made a real positive difference and lasting legacy to the world.
Is that you? Is any of that you?
If all of that is you, in fact If any of that is you congratulations (and that’s genuine) life can be tough, so if any of that is you then well done.
But maybe if all of that is not you, maybe just maybe you still have room to grow, and maybe if you listen to others viewpoints honestly without prejudice you may be able to grow.
Just a thought from a son of an immigrant… but what do I know.
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A Bit rich coming from you regarding a proper debate.
When you have lied misrepresented what i have said.
Once again, its not my fault you don't understand simple answers.
Go back, read my replies and I couldn't give a flying f*ck where you come from.
If you have to lie and misrepresent what people say then you have already lost.
Loads people say i dodge questions
The fact that so many people have to lie to debate with me, says everything i need to know about how pathetic they are.
I haven't avoided a single question.
I have had lots of accusations, which actually makes me laugh.
It's actually hilarious.
A Bit rich coming from you regarding a proper debate.
When you have lied misrepresented what i have said.
Once again, its not my fault you don't understand simple answers.
Go back, read my replies and I couldn't give a flying f*ck where you come from.
If you have to lie and misrepresent what people say then you have already lost.
Loads people say i dodge questions
The fact that so many people have to lie to debate with me, says everything i need to know about how pathetic they are.
I haven't avoided a single question.
I have had lots of accusations, which actually makes me laugh.
It's actually hilarious.
I haven’t lied, I just have just tried to interpret your viewpoint because you haven’t answered a question directly, instead you have gone off on a tangent and given statements not irrelevant to questions I haven’t asked.
My last questions was very straightforward, it was just a request for you to respond if my last statement, was factual correct or not.
I’m trying to keep it simple for you.
As for your statement that the majority of people are pathetic for questioning your avoidance of questions on here. Again I will ask, do you really believe you are that exceptional? Are you right and they are all wrong? Are you that successful in life? Because if you are not, maybe you should listen to other peoples opinions because they may know something you don’t. And you can grow by listening.
Im sorry, but if you can't understand that "many" doesn't mean a minorty or majority, it just means many countries.
then there is no point debating.
And to say a small population when Pakistan and Indonesia combined have poulation of over 500 million.
That adhere to stricter islamic laws... it ain't a small population. Once once again not saying a minority or a marority.
Actually yes, i am right, as i have backed all my claims up with evidence from repurable sources and official studies. Just because people don't like what they are hearing doesn't make me wrong.
And what the flying f*ck has being successful in life got to do with anything?
Probably the most stupidly arrogant thing i have ever heard.
It could be argued that Farage is successful, does that make him right? Like f*ck it does?
What about trump?
Cameron?
Osbourne?
What about Putin, is he right?
What about Netanyahu?
What about the ruler of Iran?
China?
Blair was successful, is he correct? He took the country to war on lie, destabilising the whole of the middle east that lead to the rise of ISIS. Like f*ck was he correct.
Just because you are successful, doesn't make you right. What a f*cking stupid thing to say you arrogant......
Do youself a favour, stop. It really is in your best interest.
You have added zero to this debate, just asked stupid questions, lied and wifully misrespesented what i said.
Despite me making it simple to understand.
Pathetic
thfcsteff
George Hunt
I have to ask, why are you so angry?A Bit rich coming from you regarding a proper debate.
When you have lied misrepresented what i have said.
Once again, its not my fault you don't understand simple answers.
Go back, read my replies and I couldn't give a flying f*ck where you come from.
If you have to lie and misrepresent what people say then you have already lost.
Loads people say i dodge questions
The fact that so many people have to lie to debate with me, says everything i need to know about how pathetic they are.
I haven't avoided a single question.
I have had lots of accusations, which actually makes me laugh.
It's actually hilarious.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
I have to say the Middle East was destabilized long before the brick-show of the early 2000s. I won't even go back centuries (there are so many starting points through time), I'll take a modern starting point of the '50s, the CIA and Iran...
markysimmo
Johnny nice-tits
Labour could tax you at 99% and you would still lap up everything
markysimmo
Johnny nice-tits
I'm not sure Kier Starmer believes anything he says. The retracted announcement that they're planning to fund 5 new freeports was hilarious and scary at the same time. It was a copy and paste mistake by a civil servant apparently but the fact it made its way all the way to official announcement and press briefings before being retracted over a day later suggests that Starmer and his top team don't understand their own policy portfolio or the advice they're being given by civil servants. Absolute amateur hour so far.
markysimmo
Johnny nice-tits
Since the day they got elected
Tories/Labour they are all a bunch of self-serving cretins who do nothing but lie and feather their own nests
Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
I voted Labour.
I want better public services, but truth is I don't really want to pay for it. I want the truth be told massive cuts to legal aid, I don't want us to spend any money on foreign aid.
Think our asylum bill should be cut right down, I think we should cut court cases by not allowing appeals so we can start building things without endless appeals.
Would get rid of the Royal family, I know some say they bring in money. Perhaps keep Buckingham Palace, but sell off all the others land they own.
Would raise the inheritance tax freehold to£500,000 but then would not allow any cop outs for the super rich, like the Royal family.
With the money used from selling off the Royal stuff I would start a national sovereign fund with the soul intention of eventually being able to pay eventually for thr NHS.
Know this is as probably not as left wing as some on here. But there we go, the are different fractions within certain movements.
Oh yeah and I would declare war on the French, the cnuts.
I want better public services, but truth is I don't really want to pay for it. I want the truth be told massive cuts to legal aid, I don't want us to spend any money on foreign aid.
Think our asylum bill should be cut right down, I think we should cut court cases by not allowing appeals so we can start building things without endless appeals.
Would get rid of the Royal family, I know some say they bring in money. Perhaps keep Buckingham Palace, but sell off all the others land they own.
Would raise the inheritance tax freehold to£500,000 but then would not allow any cop outs for the super rich, like the Royal family.
With the money used from selling off the Royal stuff I would start a national sovereign fund with the soul intention of eventually being able to pay eventually for thr NHS.
Know this is as probably not as left wing as some on here. But there we go, the are different fractions within certain movements.
Oh yeah and I would declare war on the French, the cnuts.
Precisely. I have a particular dislike for this Starmer government because it takes a special level of narcissist to spend the last few years on your soap-box about corruption, partying and self-interest, present yourselves as "the adults" and then immediately they step foot in the door they're off jet setting around, accepting tonnes of freebies and basically rubbing everyone's faces in it. Even down to the fact that they all criticised Johnson for not being across the detail amd clowning around, yet you have these farcical incidents with the new givernment where Starmer and his ministers couldn't be arsed even proof reading a major policy announcement. You really could not make it up.
Of course, but I was just refering to someone as who is considered successful. And that is what he did.
Nothing more, nothing less. I was talking what he did.
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Not angry, if i am laughing at thing, the how am I angry?
You need to asking, why are the others debating like three year olds always insinuating and calling me racist?
Linking me Farage, and other nut jobs, why are you calling me out? Despite me clearly saying i can't stand these people.
Why are you not calling them out?
I don't care what they do, I p*ss myself laughing at them. It's not my fault they are brain rotted fools.
If people can only call others racist, bigot, ain't got much of an argument and have already lost.
It's entertaining.
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markysimmo
Johnny nice-tits
All brushed under the carpet especially by our friends in here who lean left
Agree with lot, disagree with sum.
And he had a distaste of a start.
Label everyone far right who protested, most of whom were peaceful, apart from the thugs that rurned up.
Gave Chagos away for no reason what so ever.
Bus fares, 22 billion on carbon capture, no energy privatisation.
Gifts after gifts
New thought control laws for social media? Get arrested for saying wrong information?
Does this mean, Kier should arrested for lying stating no tax rise?
This government has been just as shambolic as the last, they are just going to puff the edges of a currupt and f*cked up system.