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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Silly McSilly Face said:
The last few pages on here absolutely sum up the disconnect and division that has crept into our politics over the years and created growing anger and resentment. There is a growing thing of making people justify their opinions. People get a kick out of asking people to justify a feeling or a thought and then when people struggle to explain it or justify it, invalidate it. I'm a human. I have thoughts and feelings, that I can't help and actually, do you know what, I don't actually have to justify them to anyone.

Immigration. This whole debate about whether immigrants represent a threat or not, what various statistics do or do not say about immigration.....its all gonads.

For me: there's been too much immigration, too fast. It's not the immigrants. It's me.

I don't feel safe and secure in my own country half the time. I don't want to live amongst loads of people that don't look like me, think like me and that i struggle to communicate with. If I wanted to live somewhere with loads of mosques, women with covered faces, halal butchers, chai shops, I'd have stayed in the middle east (where I was born) or I'd have moved there. If I wanted to live amongst polski sklep shops, euro food stores and what have you, I'd have moved to eastern Europe.

I don't want to have to repeat my order 3 times in Starbucks because the batista can't understand me and I can't understand her. I don't want to end up in the wrong street because my taxi driver couldn't speak English.

I recently had a major operation. First one in my life. First time being put to sleep. I was scared and stressed. I've previously had a horrific experience with a foreign doctor when my kid had a seizure and they couldn't bloody communicate. So when I was sent the list of surgeons all but one was Asian or was white but had a foreign name. I didn't know if they were British Asian or foreign. The white ones with foreign names could have been born here too for all I know but I wasn't going to take the chance. I chose the white guy with the Anglo Saxon name. To feel safe.

Am I racist? I actually don't care. I don't care if you can bring me endless stats showing immigration is a positive. It's meaningless. It's not a positive for me at all. Emotionally. If you want to label me for that then go on. I don't give a f***.

Everyone has tolerance levels of varying degrees. More and more people's tolerance levels are being breached. That much is pretty clear. People have had enough of being told what the right way to think is.

The whole Brexit issue is another encapsulation: "explain why Brexit is a good thing AAAAH you can't, you're just a thick racist".

I don't have to justify voting to leave. I can explain why I did if you want me too but actually "i just don't want to be part of the EU and that's all there is to it" is a valid opinion. Whys it valid? Because I was asked one way or the other by my own government and I gave them.sn answer.

And one of the things increasing numbers of people didn't like about the EU is intertwined with the whole gonads of "you're not allowed to have an identity now." We're all Europeans now and that Italian guy over there has the same rights you do here as we are all Europeans aren't we? And waving a St. George's flag is racist and only thick gammon do that.

Funny because I don't look like the Italian bloke. I don't think like him. I don't eat the same things as him, and i can't speak very well with him. But I've just got to sit here, tolerating feeling less and less comfortable, in my own home. Struggling to communicate with people in my own city, feeling like I belong less and less. Pale, stale and male. Gammon. Thick. Racist.
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Whilst I agree wholeheartedly re what might be called identity politics, I think what your post so honestly highlights - for the good - is how deep seated racism is. Humans are inherently racist. We classify. We stereotype. But we also have social norms, philosophy, societal standards which can mitigate some of our more base human instincts. Anyone doubting that an ethic name has an inherent disadvantage over an Anglo-Saxon name in applying for jobs, should read your post. And fair play to you you admit it’s not rational. There are many many many people who’ll wave a banner for equality yet behave in exactly the same way as you when no one is looking. Prejudice is deeply ingrained. Which is totally unfair on those with different skin colours.

Yet I understand anyone who voted Brexit as they’ve see their culture be diluted/enriched/threatened by immigration. Or you can understand the English bus driver who didn’t get any pay rises because Poles could come in and do the job happily. I can understand how changing demographics is challenging. But it’s also about getting older. When you were young the old were lamenting changes too were they not? They talked about the war and the ethics people had then, and all the negative modern changes to society. Are you much different now? Is it the changing colour of skin around you, or becoming a bit of an old fuker that is at play here? All over the globe this trend happens when people get older.

I would agree with the first point in your post though. If you’re singled out as the other group, it is dismaying to see how there is ann auto-attack mode, which has no nuance or understanding. Sometimes it’s a witch hunt. And ironically, often perpetrated by people who identify as protectors of plural
society. For example, anything Trump related seems to illicit highly conformist, obedient anti-trump responses - whatever the topic and whatever the case. Brexit also seems to have a similar lobotomising effect. Which you’ll understand as it makes you unable to think rationally too! To evaluate and fully leave bias or ideology to one side - is almost impossible. So what your post attests to more than anything are the limits of the human brain. We can step outside things like in-groups and stereotyping and be quite rational actors; but not indefinitely.
 
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It is also fascinating how many of the most fervent Brexit backers were born and lived abroad. As it led to a romanised vision of England. The core architects of Brexit were ex-pats which is quite fascinating. They grew up with their parents colonial style patriotism, and it resonated with Brexit independence emotions.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
Just the same as you and others on your side when they are not prepared to discuss articles because you think the are from the biased media, not your biased media outlets the other ones.

I know for actual facts when we gave had friends and family affected by issues. This is your problem with the government cover ups. It works for so long but as time goes on and more real people are affected by the issues and see it in visuals in real life in front of their own eyes you guys can no longer shoot them down as racist or conspiracy nuts. The cat is out the bag and everyone cam see it.

The amount of people now seeing it and saying it, middle class university educated people saying it in hushed tones, now saying to me things questioning and criticising what has been happening.

And you know what it is people like you guys. It is your fault, you can never for one second concede that you are ever wring about one thing never concede that things have gone to far.

I have always spoken out against Trump but I can more and more see why the middle ground in America voted him in, why the right are rising in Europe. All you guys in this thread think it is because they are racist or are stupid and been conned. No it is the complete failure of the left to deal with issues and to confront its issues.

This on a day the British government has been found to be telling judges to treat minorities differently when it comes to sentencing. Thought you would be up in arms about that as surely it is racist. The is only one reason why you are not and I think it shows proof conclusive you were never for equality. Shame on you steff, shame on you
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Just pathetic. I am genuinely disappointed. I thought you had more about you than this flimsy nonsense...
 
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Give them evidence and data and they return with isolated anecdotes. This is the sign of somebody who doesn't care about truth. Some of the racist and hateful brick spouted on here last few pages is so revealing. Good to see the mask come off Danish.
 
LutonSpurs said:
Give them evidence and data and they return with isolated anecdotes. This is the sign of somebody who doesn't care about truth. Some of the racist and hateful brick spouted on here last few pages is so revealing. Good to see the mask come off Danish.
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I thought sillyface's post was extraordinarily honest. It is (by proxy) prejudicial in the sense they evidently feel uncomfortable unless in the company of people fitting specific parameters, however I did not feel they are mindfully racist in a hateful way. They were very transparent about personal feelings and fears, furthermore admitting they might perhaps be irrational ones. Perhaps I am letting that honesty blind me somewhat?
 
thfcsteff said:
I thought sillyface's post was extraordinarily honest. It is (by proxy) prejudicial in the sense they evidently feel uncomfortable unless in the company of people fitting specific parameters, however I did not feel they are mindfully racist in a hateful way. They were very transparent about personal feelings and fears, furthermore admitting they might perhaps be irrational ones. Perhaps I am letting that honesty blind me somewhat?
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Mindfully or unmindfully. It's racism. Intended or unintended the same. I mean there's victims at the end of it who suffer from this man's irrational fears. He perpetuates them on here and GHod knows where else and ultimately makes the life of me and mine more unsafe as the hate levels rise.
 
thfcsteff said:
I thought sillyface's post was extraordinarily honest. It is (by proxy) prejudicial in the sense they evidently feel uncomfortable unless in the company of people fitting specific parameters, however I did not feel they are mindfully racist in a hateful way. They were very transparent about personal feelings and fears, furthermore admitting they might perhaps be irrational ones. Perhaps I am letting that honesty blind me somewhat?
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I understand people being worried more than making baseless accusations because of those fears, which is what's happening on many of the posts.

Again the "Grooming gangs are asian therefore shows institutional abuse in those cultures" goes against the evidence. There were famous gangs of all white male grooming gangs in this country many famously at a political level and others. From the 2020 report 1,231 perpetrators of "group and gang-based child sexual exploitation", 42% were white, 14% were defined as Asian or Asian British and 17% black.

But again, Dave the plumber knows someone who knows someone who knows someone who read it on tiktok

And BTW no one is saying people don't have bad experiences but its a throwback to the 70s and 80s where people would have a bad encounter with someone from a different race or religion and use it as a stick to beat them all with............
 
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LutonSpurs said:
Mindfully or unmindfully. It's racism. Intended or unintended the same. I mean there's victims at the end of it who suffer from this man's irrational fears. He perpetuates them on here and GHod knows where else and ultimately makes the life of me and mine more unsafe as the hate levels rise.
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That is true.
 
LutonSpurs said:
Mindfully or unmindfully. It's racism. Intended or unintended the same. I mean there's victims at the end of it who suffer from this man's irrational fears. He perpetuates them on here and GHod knows where else and ultimately makes the life of me and mine more unsafe as the hate levels rise.
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Yet it is more cathartic and useful that someone is honest about it. So much of what was said is hidden by most. It is there in all of us to some degree - people classify and stereotype things everyday and everywhere. But when it’s hidden there isn’t anything to work with. People being open about the way they feel at least allows for transparency and hopefully progress.
 
SpurMeUp said:
Yet it is more cathartic and useful that someone is honest about it. So much of what was said is hidden by most. It is there in all of us to some degree - people classify and stereotype things everyday and everywhere. But when it’s hidden there isn’t anything to work with. People being open about the way they feel at least allows for transparency and hopefully progress.
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I prefer a world where people are honest. Chich is using lies to try and justify his bigotry whereas sillyface just says it.

However the harm or benefit of his transparency is probably immeasurable in my view.
 
@markysimmo check out the excellent esteemed and award winning broadcaster Alex Phillips.

The is a youtube series she does and I believe she puts up snippets of the interviews she does on tiktok. Mainly she works for talk tv.

She did an interview with human rights activist Yasmine Mohamme who is a brown skin lady who has family ties to Egypt. One part of the interview that struck out to me was how she cited an UNCIEF report where 99.3% of women had been sexually assaulted.

Now I know your a despicable racist but if you can bring yourself to listen to a brown person for a few minutes then it is on her youtube page, shorter version on her tiktok page. Is being widely shared across lots of groups.

Don't allow others to influence you and tell you to only get news from their biased news companies.

Oh and no more parking on double yellows young man. That will be 20 years in prison for you as a white sometimes straight man.
 
LutonSpurs said:
I prefer a world where people are honest. Chich is using lies to try and justify his bigotry whereas sillyface just says it.

However the harm or benefit of his transparency is probably immeasurable in my view.
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I genuinely think it has as much to do with people’s aging and a lament for their youth. But nevertheless it should act as a warning of what is there in everyone - we can all be prejudicial. And we have to consciously act against it most of the time. An exception might be football, where you can explore in groups and team prejudice with immunity.

It feel like societies made strides forward over the past 50 years but we’re seeing a consolidation now, with globalisation and aging western populations. 3 steps forward one step back. But the thing to hang onto is these views are coming from older generations. And rarely the young.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
I am actually ashamed I voted Labour at the last election. I suppose you could say I at least gave them a chance.

But today's announcement of them treating criminals different because of their backgrounds shows them to be racist.

It is a different thong to screening who comes into the country through background checks before the usual apologists come on.

Labour after today have to be known as the racist party. An utter disgrace and this is just one that we know of.
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But the Sentencing Council is an independent body. Government has no way to overturn its recommendations, aside from changing the law.

We already have a 2-tier justice system - see the figures posted by @LutonSpurs. This sounds like an attempt to address that. Not to ensure minorities get a lower sentence but to ensure they are fairly sentenced to the same standard as any other criminal.

The recommendation for pre-sentencing reports is also not limited to criminals from ethnic minority backgrounds. It applies also to young adults, abuse survivors and pregnant women.
The outrage should be over the fact that there is a discrepancy that needs to be addressed. Of course it could be flipped around - give higher/longer sentences to non- ethnic minorities to level the playing field - that would fo down well.
Just treat everyone fairly and if this helps the judicial system to get there, so be it.

I could see it becoming problematic however with sentences being appealed where no pre-sentencing report has been produced.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
But the Sentencing Council is an independent body. Government has no way to overturn its recommendations, aside from changing the law.

We already have a 2-tier justice system - see the figures posted by @LutonSpurs. This sounds like an attempt to address that. Not to ensure minorities get a lower sentence but to ensure they are fairly sentenced to the same standard as any other criminal.

The recommendation for pre-sentencing reports is also not limited to criminals from ethnic minority backgrounds. It applies also to young adults, abuse survivors and pregnant women.
The outrage should be over the fact that there is a discrepancy that needs to be addressed. Of course it could be flipped around - give higher/longer sentences to non- ethnic minorities to level the playing field - that would fo down well.
Just treat everyone fairly and if this helps the judicial system to get there, so be it.

I could see it becoming problematic however with sentences being appealed where no pre-sentencing report has been produced.
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You're being disingenuous if you do not think this is not applying pressure and a bias to the judiciary. It is a clear pattern of behaviour that we are seeing in this country.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
You're being disingenuous if you do not think this is not applying pressure and a bias to the judiciary. It is a clear pattern of behaviour that we are seeing in this country.
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Its been rejected by the justice secretary so there we have it

Everyone was seemingly ok when the system was absolutely discriminating against others in this country..........nothing to see then
 
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Danishfurniturelover said:
Just the same as you and others on your side when they are not prepared to discuss articles because you think the are from the biased media, not your biased media outlets the other ones.

I know for actual facts when we gave had friends and family affected by issues. This is your problem with the government cover ups. It works for so long but as time goes on and more real people are affected by the issues and see it in visuals in real life in front of their own eyes you guys can no longer shoot them down as racist or conspiracy nuts. The cat is out the bag and everyone cam see it.

The amount of people now seeing it and saying it, middle class university educated people saying it in hushed tones, now saying to me things questioning and criticising what has been happening.

And you know what it is people like you guys. It is your fault, you can never for one second concede that you are ever wring about one thing never concede that things have gone to far.

I have always spoken out against Trump but I can more and more see why the middle ground in America voted him in, why the right are rising in Europe. All you guys in this thread think it is because they are racist or are stupid and been conned. No it is the complete failure of the left to deal with issues and to confront its issues.

This on a day the British government has been found to be telling judges to treat minorities differently when it comes to sentencing. Thought you would be up in arms about that as surely it is racist. The is only one reason why you are not and I think it shows proof conclusive you were never for equality. Shame on you steff, shame on you
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You've now just become a parody of yourself.

This just isn't true. Something you could establish and properly understand with 5 minutes of reading about the situation.
 
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