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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Glenda's Legs said:
Sunak : I think it’s incredibly important that we don’t politicise this.
Says the man who rushed back to England for a political interview.

Seriously - how can someone get it SO wrong?
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Through a heady mix of arrogance and ineptitude.

The reaction to this is WAY over the top, but that doesn’t make it any less funny. They are going to be out of power for a long time.
 
Mikey10 said:
Through a heady mix of arrogance and ineptitude.

The reaction to this is WAY over the top, but that doesn’t make it any less funny. They are going to be out of power for a long time.
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I’m not really one for hyperbole but I don’t think it is over the top. It’s hugely disrespectful on a number of levels and pure opportunism which is backfiring hilariously. Labour don’t really have to do a lot apart from not massively c*ck up to win this, but the Tories are handing it to them on a plate.
 
Mikey10 said:
Through a heady mix of arrogance and ineptitude.

The reaction to this is WAY over the top, but that doesn’t make it any less funny. They are going to be out of power for a long time.
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Its just people with such enormous silver spoons can never have proper empathy, and occasionally they forget their learned masking behaviour
 
Rorschach said:
Not that they were going to win anyway, but that is a terminal move by Sunak. He'll fudge off to to the US and hopefully will never be heard of again. Unless he's in court (hopefully)
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Yeah - if there was 5% of the population guarenteed to vote for him it would be the flag shaggers. And he's just spat in their faces.

Nice touch Mordaunt putting the boot in too, prioritising not loosing her seat
 
SpurMeUp said:
What I find...poignant...is the people who'll vote Farrage because Brexit didn't deliver. They were promised lower immigration, and it increased. They were promised better jobs, things got worse. So what do you do? Vote for the liar who sold you a pup.

The reason its poignant (and not ironic) is I understand what these people wanted, and how they've been left to one side by political classes. But to think the Tory party, or a quasi-fascist like Farrage who presents well but offers nothing of substance, is the answer, is sad really. You've been missold nonsense on immigration for over a decade. Effectively been used by Tory Party and Vote Leave to get cheap votes. You're upset, you're worse off now than you were, immigration is even higher, so what do you do? Vote for the guy who offered up the lie in the first place.
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well I know your not specifically talking about me as we know my reasons for voting leave were far more nuanced then purely immigration.

The immigration figures, not to be confused with the asylum figures are high for a few reasons.

An inability of the tories to not get a hold on it partly due to incompetence and partly because they never wanted to, figures from non European countries which could have been controlled before the brexit are higher then before.

Immigration particularly high skilled immigration is a driver for the economy so a good thing.

other reasons for the high numbers are a civil service and a house of Lord helped by our national news broadcaster and its propaganda in putting blocks on what few reforms were put forward.

The EU itself and particularly the French who were happy to take ever increasing amounts of money to stop dangerous illegal journeys across the Channel but not do anything to stop it.

The irony is that politically Europe is moving to the right and the controls that Cameron asked for before the referendum will probably be implemented across the EU, had he got those controls, remain would probably had won, I would always vote leave.

Immigration is no where near the biggest issue facing this country. Taking the railways and water companies back under state control, taxing companies like amazon having a coherent strategy for green technology and house building are far more important. I think all are best served by a Labour government.

Immigration for me is quite simple, high skilled immigration should be welcomed, low skilled jobs should be taken by our own feckless benefit cheats or their benefits taken away and they should be deported to some place else.

As for alyssum we should always look to safe some but keeping families together would be my preference rather then the clearly economic ones that come in illegally.

Take home message, the EU is evil.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
well I know your not specifically talking about me as we know my reasons for voting leave were far more nuanced then purely immigration.

The immigration figures, not to be confused with the asylum figures are high for a few reasons.

An inability of the tories to not get a hold on it partly due to incompetence and partly because they never wanted to, figures from non European countries which could have been controlled before the brexit are higher then before.

Immigration particularly high skilled immigration is a driver for the economy so a good thing.

other reasons for the high numbers are a civil service and a house of Lord helped by our national news broadcaster and its propaganda in putting blocks on what few reforms were put forward.

The EU itself and particularly the French who were happy to take ever increasing amounts of money to stop dangerous illegal journeys across the Channel but not do anything to stop it.

The irony is that politically Europe is moving to the right and the controls that Cameron asked for before the referendum will probably be implemented across the EU, had he got those controls, remain would probably had won, I would always vote leave.

Immigration is no where near the biggest issue facing this country. Taking the railways and water companies back under state control, taxing companies like amazon having a coherent strategy for green technology and house building are far more important. I think all are best served by a Labour government.

Immigration for me is quite simple, high skilled immigration should be welcomed, low skilled jobs should be taken by our own feckless benefit cheats or their benefits taken away and they should be deported to some place else.

As for alyssum we should always look to safe some but keeping families together would be my preference rather then the clearly economic ones that come in illegally.

Take home message, the EU is evil.
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Furry muff. Btw what do you think of these ball trimmer contraptions? Talking about the biggest issues facing us!
 
I feel for ‘Clacton man’. People without prospects or much income. Anyone in that position who’s seen the demographic UK profile change so much over their lifetime (older people), with no tangible upside to them, would probably feel the same.

But the truth is, even poorer Brits don’t want the worst jobs. Unsurprisingly. The really manual building jobs for example where you’re breathing in dust all day long and working your arse off, is still done by non-Brits. Brits self-worth is so much higher now. The 80-90s changed things with everyone’s aspirations increased. There is a good argument for immigration helping with lower paid jobs, and Brits training up for the higher paid roles - the reverse of your suggestion.

When in the EU a lot of low skill workers traveled home again. Now we’re a full time destination for immigrants from outside Europe. EU immigration has dropped, rest of the world immigration balooned. Whilst Brexit wasn’t just about immigration or just backed by racists, there is a wonderful irony that what the quasi fascists like Farage have achieved is a less white UK. And research shows that those who don’t like immigrants prefer European immigration. Beautiful that their racists undertones and actions have resulted in them getting the opposite of what they want. And that’s Brexit in a nutshell. Unfulfilling. Nothing massively dramatic, but slightly worse for those who wanted to control immigration and slightly worse for the economy with less tax revenue for our government to spend.

Europe has similar themes and pressures to the UK, we have a lot in common with them. Our wobble to the right unfortunately meant we left a 500m population free market. Those in the EU - even the right wing Farage equivalents - are not considering leaving the club.
 
SpurMeUp said:
I feel for ‘Clacton man’. People without prospects or much income. Anyone in that position who’s seen the demographic UK profile change so much over their lifetime (older people), with no tangible upside to them, would probably feel the same.

But the truth is, even poorer Brits don’t want the worst jobs. Unsurprisingly. The really manual building jobs for example where you’re breathing in dust all day long and working your arse off, is still done by non-Brits. Brits self-worth is so much higher now. The 80-90s changed things with everyone’s aspirations increased. There is a good argument for immigration helping with lower paid jobs, and Brits training up for the higher paid roles - the reverse of your suggestion.

When in the EU a lot of low skill workers traveled home again. Now we’re a full time destination for immigrants from outside Europe. EU immigration has dropped, rest of the world immigration balooned. Whilst Brexit wasn’t just about immigration or just backed by racists, there is a wonderful irony that what the quasi fascists like Farage have achieved is a less white UK. And research shows that those who don’t like immigrants prefer European immigration. Beautiful that their racists undertones and actions have resulted in them getting the opposite of what they want. And that’s Brexit in a nutshell. Unfulfilling. Nothing massively dramatic, but slightly worse for those who wanted to control immigration and slightly worse for the economy with less tax revenue for our government to spend.

Europe has similar themes and pressures to the UK, we have a lot in common with them. Our wobble to the right unfortunately meant we left a 500m population free market. Those in the EU - even the right wing Farage equivalents - are not considering leaving the club.
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It's odd that the uni educated who don't see themselves as racist think it's OK that low, menial jobs are below them and it's OK to bring in "others" to do those jobs because that is their place in life.
Personally it's more important to me to have a brickie who can build my house, a mechanic that can fix my washing machine and a fruit picker that puts food on my table than a say fashion and design student, an art student or many other degrees.
 
glasgowspur said:
It's odd that the uni educated who don't see themselves as racist think it's OK that low, menial jobs are below them and it's OK to bring in "others" to do those jobs because that is their place in life.
Personally it's more important to me to have a brickie who can build my house, a mechanic that can fix my washing machine and a fruit picker that puts food on my table than a say fashion and design student, an art student or many other degrees.
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what about a coffee shop worker with a degree in American movies?
 
SpurMeUp said:
I feel for ‘Clacton man’. People without prospects or much income. Anyone in that position who’s seen the demographic UK profile change so much over their lifetime (older people), with no tangible upside to them, would probably feel the same.

But the truth is, even poorer Brits don’t want the worst jobs. Unsurprisingly. The really manual building jobs for example where you’re breathing in dust all day long and working your arse off, is still done by non-Brits. Brits self-worth is so much higher now. The 80-90s changed things with everyone’s aspirations increased. There is a good argument for immigration helping with lower paid jobs, and Brits training up for the higher paid roles - the reverse of your suggestion.

When in the EU a lot of low skill workers traveled home again. Now we’re a full time destination for immigrants from outside Europe. EU immigration has dropped, rest of the world immigration balooned. Whilst Brexit wasn’t just about immigration or just backed by racists, there is a wonderful irony that what the quasi fascists like Farage have achieved is a less white UK. And research shows that those who don’t like immigrants prefer European immigration. Beautiful that their racists undertones and actions have resulted in them getting the opposite of what they want. And that’s Brexit in a nutshell. Unfulfilling. Nothing massively dramatic, but slightly worse for those who wanted to control immigration and slightly worse for the economy with less tax revenue for our government to spend.

Europe has similar themes and pressures to the UK, we have a lot in common with them. Our wobble to the right unfortunately meant we left a 500m population free market. Those in the EU - even the right wing Farage equivalents - are not considering leaving the club.
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Europe is going right, while we are going left. Bona fide fascists now in government in Hungary, Slovakia, Italy and soon France. Marine Le Pen will be presiding over the Olympics in a few weeks time. Scary
 
Gutter Boy said:
Europe is going right, while we are going left. Bona fide fascists now in government in Hungary, Slovakia, Italy and soon France. Marine Le Pen will be presiding over the Olympics in a few weeks time. Scary
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And none seriously entertain the idea of leaving the EU? Does that make our right more stupid than theirs? :tearsofjoy:
 
Sinn Fein taking a serious trouncing in the Irish council elections. People obviously beginning to wake up to the reality of the kind of party they elected last time.
 
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