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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

Housing does need a total rethink. Funny how nobody is really grasping the true root cause of the current regular dumping of sewerage into rivers and seas.

Prevailing view is that this is due to privatisation and greedy water companies. In reality housebuilding and population growth far outstripping the ability to upgrade the sewer system to cope, which when coupled with increases in rainfall due to climate change mean that sewers are pretty much at capacity and are constantly having to discharge via emergency protocol to prevent it backing up into people's houses, the streets and other properties.

Government(s) happy for private water companies to take the brunt of the anger when similar to the railways the kind of strategic infrastructure project required to fix the fundamental structural issues behind the problem was always a central government funded and executed project. They don't want to fund it as it will be the biggest civil infrastructure project undertaken in this country and cost eye watering amounts. However the idea that you could just keep authorising tonnes of new houses be connected to the water system without drastic consequences arising years later would be hilarious if not so serious.
This is spot on, but I wouldn't let the water companies of the hook....we've slept walked into this situation, mainly due to the actual water part and the importance of it not being at the very top of anyones outcomes list.
 
This is spot on, but I wouldn't let the water companies of the hook....we've slept walked into this situation, mainly due to the actual water part and the importance of it not being at the very top of anyones outcomes list.
Not letting them off the hook, some of then haven't been reporting accurately the number of times they're having to do it to avoid penalties. Its just the fact that people think nationalisation would stop the discharges. It won't. They'll continue to get worse without central government intervention and investment whoever is in charge of water.
 
There's quite a sizeable parliamentary tory party to be fair, including 273 members of the House of Lords along with the commons and the raft of candidates whether now seamless or not that I'd also include in the "parliamentary party" which is the part of the party that actually has to come up with policy and fight elections.

I wouldn't count on any Lords (of any colour) still being there in 2029. Hopefully not anyway.
 
Housing does need a total rethink. Funny how nobody is really grasping the true root cause of the current regular dumping of sewerage into rivers and seas.

Prevailing view is that this is due to privatisation and greedy water companies. In reality housebuilding and population growth far outstripping the ability to upgrade the sewer system to cope, which when coupled with increases in rainfall due to climate change mean that sewers are pretty much at capacity and are constantly having to discharge via emergency protocol to prevent it backing up into people's houses, the streets and other properties.

Government(s) happy for private water companies to take the brunt of the anger when similar to the railways the kind of strategic infrastructure project required to fix the fundamental structural issues behind the problem was always a central government funded and executed project. They don't want to fund it as it will be the biggest civil infrastructure project undertaken in this country and cost eye watering amounts. However the idea that you could just keep authorising tonnes of new houses be connected to the water system without drastic consequences arising years later would be hilarious if not so serious.

There's enough houses. The problem is the distribution of ownership. Taxing private landlords out of business would replenish both public housing and private ownership. Just like it did in the 1920s.
 
There's enough houses. The problem is the distribution of ownership. Taxing private landlords out of business would replenish both public housing and private ownership. Just like it did in the 1920s.
I think it will tax casual private landlords out of business. Anybody with a decent property portfolio will just transfer them all to a company or some other structure that they are then in control of.

Limited company will be able to offset income against costs and pay dividends and directors salary. The offset costs will include a car for the company director as a justified business expense so he can visit his properties and other jolly old boys stuff like that :)
 
Not letting them off the hook, some of then haven't been reporting accurately the number of times they're having to do it to avoid penalties. Its just the fact that people think nationalisation would stop the discharges. It won't. They'll continue to get worse without central government intervention and investment whoever is in charge of water.

If all profits were put back into the infrastructure, wouldn't that be a start to addressing the issue?
 
I think it will tax casual private landlords out of business. Anybody with a decent property portfolio will just transfer them all to a company or some other structure that they are then in control of.

Limited company will be able to offset income against costs and pay dividends and directors salary. The offset costs will include a car for the company director as a justified business expense so he can visit his properties and other jolly old boys stuff like that :)
Firmer regulation to stop all profiteering out of third party house ownership then, esp targeting larger operations. Try and get it back to majority owner occupied and the rest public owned.
 
Firmer regulation to stop all profiteering out of third party house ownership then, esp targeting larger operations. Try and get it back to majority owner occupied and the rest public owned.
Too add....buy to let is just another asset class where people will place their money to earn a return.
The reason it's fudged up the whole 'housing game' is the 'amateur landlord' has benefited from capital gain as well as income from rent. Looser regulation around BTL mortgages (compared to residential)allowed people to pile in and prices kept going north, resulting in traditional buyers being priced out or chasing their tail, while amateur landlords couldn't fail as they had their cake and could eat it. (Capital return and income)

Before this phenomenon landlords were all about yield (income) That was the business model. (and the bigger residential landlords still are).

Tbf, It's an investment (with risk) at the end of the day and saying they should be stopped profiteering is one sided. Yes they have been making returns BUT would you be laughing if the market was depressed and their BTL mortgages were underwater?
 
Too add....buy to let is just another asset class where people will place their money to earn a return.
The reason it's fudged up the whole 'housing game' is the 'amateur landlord' has benefited from capital gain as well as income from rent. Looser regulation around BTL mortgages (compared to residential)allowed people to pile in and prices kept going north, resulting in traditional buyers being priced out or chasing their tail, while amateur landlords couldn't fail as they had their cake and could eat it. (Capital return and income)

Before this phenomenon landlords were all about yield (income) That was the business model. (and the bigger residential landlords still are).

Tbf, It's an investment (with risk) at the end of the day and saying they should be stopped profiteering is one sided. Yes they have been making returns BUT would you be laughing if the market was depressed and their BTL mortgages were underwater?

Reintroducing rent control is probably the best way to do it: https://redbrickblog.co.uk/2021/02/rent-controls-a-retrospective/
 
Firmer regulation to stop all profiteering out of third party house ownership then, esp targeting larger operations. Try and get it back to majority owner occupied and the rest public owned.
Thing is though is it's one of the things where you have to ask yourself "why?" Because governments (actually both Labour and tory) have hammered landlords already and rents have risen as a result. I work in the banking industry and working for a traditional incumbent it *was* a bit of a stich up, but now you have all these digital challenger banks disrupting the market and the larger banks have had to change their offering to customers to avoid losing customers.

Having a diverse competitive market can help the consumers of that market- making it a closed shop to corporate and public providers can make it tougher for those that let's face it are often at the bottom of the social ladder.

Regulation is costly. You've got to employ loads of people to adequately enforce it. Making a sector heavily regulated creates its own cottage industry around it. Banking is a case in point. Now I'm absolutely not arguing for less regulation in banking. Banking is an industry that absolutely needs heavy regulation. Housing does also need regulation. But regulation in the right areas - safety such as fire safety, proper repair (e.g. damp and mould etc) but what you're talking about is regulating a sector to make it more ideologically satisfying to your sensibilities.

I do kind of lose patience with these arguments (and they're on both ends of the political spectrum). I don't want private or public railways or health care for example. I don't give a brick. I just want GOOD railways and healthcare. But I find that some people are so obsessed with having the *right* something that they lose sight of what's really important - which in this case is making sure there's plenty of affordable, good quality and secure rental properties available for people that can't buy a property.
 
Too add....buy to let is just another asset class where people will place their money to earn a return.
The reason it's fudged up the whole 'housing game' is the 'amateur landlord' has benefited from capital gain as well as income from rent. Looser regulation around BTL mortgages (compared to residential)allowed people to pile in and prices kept going north, resulting in traditional buyers being priced out or chasing their tail, while amateur landlords couldn't fail as they had their cake and could eat it. (Capital return and income)

Before this phenomenon landlords were all about yield (income) That was the business model. (and the bigger residential landlords still are).

Tbf, It's an investment (with risk) at the end of the day and saying they should be stopped profiteering is one sided. Yes they have been making returns BUT would you be laughing if the market was depressed and their BTL mortgages were underwater?
What looser regulation exists around BTL mortgages? Corporate BTL yes, as a corporate BTL mortgage isn't regulated under MCOB rules. A consumer BTL mortgage (taken out by the type of landlord Gutterboy wants to get rid of from the market) is as regulated as a residential loan.
 
If all profits were put back into the infrastructure, wouldn't that be a start to addressing the issue?
Well if *all* profits are put into infrastructure then there isn't a viable private enterprise there anymore. But let's say you nationalise them all. Thames water for example has had to be bailed out and last pre-tax profits were £157 million. That would barely pay for one extra treatment plant let alone the complete rebuild of built-upon victorian architecture we are often largely working with. So no, if water companies were nationalised, the government would firstly likely have to pump money in just to make most of the operation basically viable, even prior to thinking about meaningful investment.
 
Well if *all* profits are put into infrastructure then there isn't a viable private enterprise there anymore. But let's say you nationalise them all. Thames water for example has had to be bailed out and last pre-tax profits were £157 million. That would barely pay for one extra treatment plant let alone the complete rebuild of built-upon victorian architecture we are often largely working with. So no, if water companies were nationalised, the government would firstly likely have to pump money in just to make most of the operation basically viable, even prior to thinking about meaningful investment.

2022/2023: Water companies in England made £1.7 billion in pre-tax profits, which is an 82% increase from 2018/2019.

Thames Water was pillaged some years ago. Was registered as an offshore company! Which is absurd.
 

£25bllion taken out by water companies. Zero of this was reinvested apparently.

Thames Water dividend payments total £7.2bn over 32 years​

 
2022/2023: Water companies in England made £1.7 billion in pre-tax profits, which is an 82% increase from 2018/2019.

Thames Water was pillaged some years ago. Was registered as an offshore company! Which is absurd.
£1.7 billion across the whole country is barely enough to put a new treatment centre in every county. To redesign the sewer system completely for current and future use will cost 100s of billions. Possibly even over £100 billion for any county with several large cities where highly complex subterranean work will be required across the entire built up area. Hence nationalisation would make almost zero difference to the fundamental problem facing water treatment.
 
What looser regulation exists around BTL mortgages? Corporate BTL yes, as a corporate BTL mortgage isn't regulated under MCOB rules. A consumer BTL mortgage (taken out by the type of landlord Gutterboy wants to get rid of from the market) is as regulated as a residential loan.
Not regulated by the FCA.
 
£1.7 billion across the whole country is barely enough to put a new treatment centre in every county. To redesign the sewer system completely for current and future use will cost 100s of billions. Possibly even over £100 billion for any county with several large cities where highly complex subterranean work will be required across the entire built up area. Hence nationalisation would make almost zero difference to the fundamental problem facing water treatment.
So we carry on as we are?

Please....come forth with your plan.
 
Thing is though is it's one of the things where you have to ask yourself "why?" Because governments (actually both Labour and tory) have hammered landlords already and rents have risen as a result. I work in the banking industry and working for a traditional incumbent it *was* a bit of a stich up, but now you have all these digital challenger banks disrupting the market and the larger banks have had to change their offering to customers to avoid losing customers.

Having a diverse competitive market can help the consumers of that market- making it a closed shop to corporate and public providers can make it tougher for those that let's face it are often at the bottom of the social ladder.

Regulation is costly. You've got to employ loads of people to adequately enforce it. Making a sector heavily regulated creates its own cottage industry around it. Banking is a case in point. Now I'm absolutely not arguing for less regulation in banking. Banking is an industry that absolutely needs heavy regulation. Housing does also need regulation. But regulation in the right areas - safety such as fire safety, proper repair (e.g. damp and mould etc) but what you're talking about is regulating a sector to make it more ideologically satisfying to your sensibilities.

I do kind of lose patience with these arguments (and they're on both ends of the political spectrum). I don't want private or public railways or health care for example. I don't give a brick. I just want GOOD railways and healthcare. But I find that some people are so obsessed with having the *right* something that they lose sight of what's really important - which in this case is making sure there's plenty of affordable, good quality and secure rental properties available for people that can't buy a property.

I am ok with people buying to let but there has to be some control where people who are owning more than one property can't double down, when I say double down I mean 1 they are taking inventory off the market and 2 making it unaffordable in rent by inflating rent xtimes over the mortgage. I think the idea people earn x3 the mortgage cost in renting whilst also earning on the end with potentially an appreciated asset because you are in your 50s and 60s and can afford to speculated WHILST Tom and Jenny are 23 and clubbed together their resources and can't get on either ladder........its an issue.

I have an even more simple ides to homes because I think a home and a roof over the head is a foundation of life and living, I don't understand how we have allowed it to become such a part time enterprise that people can accumulate property for personal gain to harm and put strain on the market for others, there is plenty of other things to do with personal wealth and I just think the housing market should be more "off" limits or alot more regulated. But thats just a personal view which I am sure would be ridiculed
 
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