Hiya,
Going to offer answers within the quoted block below...the forum is messing with me so this might be across two or three replies...
I think the point about unrealistic expectations in the workplace (added with the low rates of pay) is absolutely correct. As a society we have totally lost control not only of the work/life balance, but of what the purpose of life is. Many have bought the myth of trickle down economics/'if you work hard you can also be wealthy', indeed, the disproportionate value placed on 'wealth' versus quality of life is (for me) the single biggest destructive force in western society. In moulding society to have an appetite for such 'dreams' people lost sight of the importance of our education, housing, and social services underpinning the quality of our society. Where I won't get drawn is on how migrant workers operate in the current system. Your experiences are yours/I cannot comment, but what I don't think is helpful is if observations like that become 'stereotypes'. In a sense, it is the same as saying that all young white Englishmen are lazy right-wingers i.e. inaccurate and unhelpful to the greater issues, which are that our current economic system fudges a lot of people for the benefit of a select few whilst offering some shiney trappings which suggest life is better than ever.
But you do have include how migrant workers operate in the UK, as it is part of the discussion. Just as you can't deny that certain sections of society by white British as just lazy c**ts. It's just a fact that it is happening and people lording their hard work, never talk about how after few years they are burnt out and go home. It's not all of them once again, but that it the truth of the matter. It's not stereotyping, it's a reality that you have to acknowledge whether you like it or not and make you uncomfortable.
You'll have to define what problem you feel I'm amplifying?
Not sure (again) which argument you're referring to.
No, when I refer to the conversation that is regards to the public debate and not just between us, and those two are arguments that have been used in general public to justify immigration. Like the claim they are a benefit to the economy. The problem is, the billionaires skew the figures as I mentioned. Or the argument played out on MSM giving voice to those who think white people are lazy and migrants are harder workers. Which is is a flat out lie.
So not necessary what we have been debating ourselves, but once again is an important part of the debate.
This is the closest the democrats have been to having a clue how to beat 'opposition' like this. The main issue with Trump is that he (and the far right Christian extremists) have been sewing the seeds of disinformation and influence for 8 years. What he did with the supreme court was a game changer. What he did by encouraging Jan 6th was a game changer. It is not as simple anymore. There is a current society so weaned on narcissim and fear that he is an easy reflection/set of answers for many. Plus he rings the immigration bell as the main issue, a leaf out of Hitler's book.
America has been f**ked for decades from both sides, the Democrats and Republicans, both of whom have let the American people down. And the lies and spin and BS that American news groups have given so much power to the likes of Trump to claim fake news, due to prevalence of it over the decades.
I don't disagree with you what he did, but the Democrats have lost the plot, it should be sure fire win against trump, but they are going to lose, because they refuse to address the problems that face American's, you have this insane woke ideology based on insanity over common sense... You have the like of Disney labelling everyone who doesn't like the current garbage and complete lake of respect for things that people love a racist, incels, bigots, and phobes... What do they think is going to happen when you just insulted 80% of the fan base...
Which is then seen as "left insanity" and Trump gets new voters, as voters don't want to vote for parties supporting and being supported by people who call them racist for not liking dog shyte.
The left are their own worst enemy and they just can't see it, it is just the same over there as it is here.
Assumptions are dangerous things
@SkipRat . You'd be wise not to assume how I do, or don't, ingest my information on Farage. I disagree that he's a 'blithering idiot', in fact I have long considered him the true catalyst for the wave of populists who have found favour throughout the world. With some help I should add...but idiot? Not even. He cracked the code. He realized that if he distilled his messages into the sort of soundbites which could be served to the left and right at the same time, he'd be able to move mountains for his paymasters/agenda. In fact my single biggest problem with Farage is that he is a soulless trumper who actually stands for nothing beyond his own self-interests. You might level that claim at most politicians, but I think Farage takes things to a whole new level. There is little doubt in my mind that his Brexit shove was what convinced Bannon of the playbook for Trump in 2016.
He is a blithering idiot when it comes to science, that was the point I was making, not in general.
Just a Trump was genius to buy into the fact the American people wanted change, and the Democrats buried their head in the sand sang la la la, had a candidate that though that having a fanny was enough to win, and stated that corporation to have two faces, a public one and business one. The public one sounding like they care for the customers and business one, look at how we are screwing the plebs over, invest in us.
The problem the rest of Parliament has with Farage, is that he has hit the tickle my balls with a feather too many times and they are scared. Brexit more than anything highlighted how out of touch the political classes are, on all sides of the house, and how devoid of idea's on how to take the country forward.
So again I don't necessarily disagree. I said at the time that in the US, the biggest issue was that Clinton did not give proper ear-time to the concerns of a Trump-drifting group. Disenfranchising them was absurd. Similarly, I think Cameron is a true villain for sacricifing doing his fudging job and instead calling a referendum instead of rolling his sleeves up and doing some work with regards to the EU/getting better deals, etc. He arrogantly assumed he could see of Farage with that referendum and got it royally wrong. So yes, I agree with what you're saying there. The hardest part (for me looking on) was the realisation that many of the disenfranchised are direct victims/first gen descendants of Thatcherism; in short, people I have stood with forever. What saddened me was how Farage managed to re-centre the issues around race and immigration primarily, versus economics and economic realities for a swathe of people regardless of where they'd come from.
Harris is trying exceptionally hard (for the Dems) to listen to concerns. But the scene has been set. She's playing catch-up with hard-baked extreme opinions and a total lack of middle-ground discussion. Essentially, everybody is right, everybody is wrong, and nobody wants to discuss anything.
I think the true villain isn't Cameron, but rather the EU who too arrogant to see that something was wrong, and when Cameron travelled across Europe begging for something to be done about free movement they just humiliated him instead. Passing off the fears of the PM, and in the end, the created the conditions for many people to vote leave in order to control immigration.
If the EU had changed the rules on free movement, more people would have voted to remain and probably wouldn't have had to leave. I would have voted leave, because I had other issues with them.
QUOTE="thfcsteff, post: 1827221, member: 85"]
The reason you end up being met with such assumptions is because you present your opinions in a very aggressive way and tend to outwardly call everyone who does not agree a variety of phrases which amount to them being macarons. If that is your opinion then so be it, but I'd suggest it is probably unreasonable to expect rational reactions to heated rhetoric.
I personally am always open to any data I produce being challenged; that is part of healthy debate and discussion. All data derives from a contextual root, and the nature of that context/root is important to define and be understood IMO.
If I thought you were simply a racist I wouldn't have bothered with the reply I initially gave, or with this one.
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No people where calling me that from the off, so I laughed at them.
