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American politics

Mikey10 said:
I read an article a couple of weeks ago (in The New European, I think) which suggested they are purposely allowing things to unravel for a while, as they feel that’s the most effective way to allow the electorate to see the consequences of MAGA, and to therefore deal it a fatal blow in the longer term.

Seems extremely high-risk - and unlikely - to me. My reading is that they are disorganised, are being totally overtaken by the pace of change, and lack a clear figure to rally around.

Edit: with apologies to @Lost Mango above, who just beat me to it!
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I think this is correct. There are a few notable exceptions where dems reps have come out loud and clear about what is happening but they are the exception to the rule. There seems to be a distinct lack of overall strategy as if they were surprised about what is happening. They shouldn't have been, as it was well-telegraphed beforehand with the publication of the 2025 document - an actual blueprint for what is happening now. The dems election message of protecting democracy was too nebulous and didn't resonate as well as saying 'eggs are expensive'.
The 'No Kings' slogan which is becoming a thing now is far better. Simple and clear, and getting a bit of traction at protests (which are also getting more frequent). There is a big protest on Mar 4th and every dem leader should be at front of that making the news rather than reacting to it.

It is not all bad though. The courts are getting involved and that will throw sand in the gears, and disgruntled red voters at town hall meetings are getting more frequent in deep red states as cuts begin to bite. There are protests at Tesla dealerships and polls show Trump and Musk favorability dropping fast. I think the breath of doge cuts has affected so many people, including GOP voters, that the bad stories are everywhere now and multiplying. While dems can really stop anything their mission should be the make sure that any fallout is attributed to Trump and his goons.

edit: I listened to this interview this morning. It is excellent IMO. It shows at least that the dems have somewhat belated but correctly identified their weaknesses, generally speaking. It's a bit long but if you in here reading this you are already dodging work.
 
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monkeybarry said:
This is a fascinating and understandable sentiment.
But what does that look like?

Fascism being what it is, they already have those counter avenues sewn up.
What are people going to do? Protest? They'll be labelled lefty wokey and anti democracy, irrespective of how they voted. And they'll be met with a group of, well....we saw what they look like on 6 Jan.

It's difficult to see what can be done until the mid terms. Until then I guess the US political and judicial system needs to run interference. Partly that's how the US system is designed (the checks and balances), but partly it's also anti democracy. And that last bit is essential tipping point for fascism - make behaviour that retains the soul of the nation seem undemocratic.

Which does raise the question about democracy - we may not like or recognise what the current US looks like. That doesn't mean it isn't what Americans want (by virtue of vote, you'll never have consensus)
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Well you would think they are making so many cuts and the sword is swooping so hard that some of his victims are going to be voters who will wake up and say "I didn't vote for this". He is already failing at the real promises in brining down the cost of food and living costs, you would hope that the deflection tactics and pointing at others to blame can only last so long but maybe I am being optimistic
 
Grays_1890 said:
Well you would think they are making so many cuts and the sword is swooping so hard that some of his victims are going to be voters who will wake up and say "I didn't vote for this". He is already failing at the real promises in brining down the cost of food and living costs, you would hope that the deflection tactics and pointing at others to blame can only last so long but maybe I am being optimistic
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"So what? What are they going to do?
Not vote for him again? Already have - don't need you to again, well not any time soon.
Protest? That's just wokey and anti democracy. We'll shut it down however we need to."

The last part might be the key. Will the police enforce that? And to what extent?
 
monkeybarry said:
"So what? What are they going to do?
Not vote for him again? Already have - don't need you to again, well not any time soon.
Protest? That's just wokey and anti democracy. We'll shut it down however we need to."

The last part might be the key. Will the police enforce that? And to what extent?
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Well yeh thats the system and he won't get in again unless he changes the 2 term rule, how broken the country is after that is another argument.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Well yeh thats the system and he won't get in again unless he changes the 2 term rule, how broken the country is after that is another argument.
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On paper, yes.
There is, however, another scenario - and it's quite scary.
The constitution is a two term maximum of being president. It doesn't bar him from running again.
I wouldn't be surprised if we get to a point where he just runs again and emphasizes that voting him in is "the will of the people", and pushes that position to amend the constitution. Anything else is another "stolen election".

I don't see a way the constitution gets changed democracically during this term. But doing it by force might just work.
 
monkeybarry said:
On paper, yes.
There is, however, another scenario - and it's quite scary.
The constitution is a two term maximum of being president. It doesn't bar him from running again.
I wouldn't be surprised if we get to a point where he just runs again and emphasizes that voting him in is "the will of the people", and pushes that position to amend the constitution. Anything else is another "stolen election".

I don't see a way the constitution gets changed democracically during this term. But doing it by force might just work.
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If the two parties haven't done enough by then to oust him at the next election then they deserve all they get.
Trump is under the Republican banner, but he's not a Republican. They need to reclaim their Party.

The dems need to wake the fudge up and get into the real world, the middle ground are voting against you because they think you've abandoned them. Stop telling them they are wrong and show them they are wrong.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Nice to see Macron laughing at the old cnut in their presser yesterday. I thought he handled things really well considering who he was sat next too,
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Yes. I have only seen a couple of clips but i was quite impressed with how Macron things. I hope Starmer can do similar.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
Yes. I have only seen a couple of clips but i was quite impressed with how Macron things. I hope Starmer can do similar.
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I would like to see Starmer do a Hugh grant from love actually and properly call him out.

Those remarks last week about Ukraine were absolutely disgusting. Never liked Trump but sound of found it funny when he was telling people to drink bleach. But a country gets invaded their citizens raped and killed and to say they started it, it's disgusting.

If Starmer could get France and Germany to support him I would back him to declare war on Russia. Really it's what Johnson should have done when it all started.

I voted leave because I hate the EU. But we are all still Europeans. We might have our differences in Europe but our continent and way of life needs protecting.
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
I would like to see Starmer do a Hugh grant from love actually and properly call him out.

Those remarks last week about Ukraine were absolutely disgusting. Never liked Trump but sound of found it funny when he was telling people to drink bleach. But a country gets invaded their citizens raped and killed and to say they started it, it's disgusting.

If Starmer could get France and Germany to support him I would back him to declare war on Russia. Really it's what Johnson should have done when it all started.

I voted leave because I hate the EU. But we are all still Europeans. We might have our differences in Europe but our continent and way of life needs protecting.
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I'd like Starmer to punch him in the face
 
Danishfurniturelover said:
I would like to see Starmer do a Hugh grant from love actually and properly call him out.

Those remarks last week about Ukraine were absolutely disgusting. Never liked Trump but sound of found it funny when he was telling people to drink bleach. But a country gets invaded their citizens raped and killed and to say they started it, it's disgusting.

If Starmer could get France and Germany to support him I would back him to declare war on Russia. Really it's what Johnson should have done when it all started.

I voted leave because I hate the EU. But we are all still Europeans. We might have our differences in Europe but our continent and way of life needs protecting.
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Agreed.
Although pretty tricky across such different cultures and economies.
How about some kind of alliance of nations?
A, erm, union....if you will.... ;) :p
 
glasgowspur said:
The dems need to wake the fudge up and get into the real world, the middle ground are voting against you because they think you've abandoned them. Stop telling them they are wrong and show them they are wrong.
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Do you not think that the Dems are doing exactly the same as Starmer and Labour did? He gave our Tory party and their various leaders enough rope to hang themselves. No doubt the Dems know they can't win by saying too much at this stage. They will do their talking in the mid-terms when things will invariably shift back their direction. Even then their comms will be minimal this far out from the next election. We know the pattern.
 
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