Ange in or out?

[Daveeeeeeeed]

People in general don't like nuance, much easier to believe it's all Ange, or all Levy, the viewpoint I never can understand is the "we can't find a manger", every fudging club finds a manager, especially ones who have money.

There was one around 2025 years ago, but they are quite rare nowadays to find.

 

[Gutter Boy]

It's interesting, as time moves on the Ange debate is becoming even more polarised.

On one extreme you have the ABA'ers - Anything But Ange. This group will find every reason possible to absolve Ange from the problem. Seems the ABA'ers are perhaps on Lange's case as a different place to channel energies. I'm even hearing "we're not playing Ange ball anymore. It can't be that"

On the other side we have the Ange out phalanx who just believe that everything negative at our club is down to him personally. He is the antichrist of THFC and has been sent in to fudge us up. He deliberately does the opposite of what he should be doing.

Sometimes it feels like anything you write will be attacked by one of the 2 groups. lol - you can't win.

I just don't really understand a pro Ange argument. We've literally had 3 good performances in 18 months, and everything else has been decline. It's like saying - Harold Shipman, oh year he did give me paracetamol for a migraine once, so he did show potential with that whole doctoring thing.

 

[harr1984]

People in general don't like nuance, much easier to believe it's all Ange, or all Levy, the viewpoint I never can understand is the "we can't find a manger", every fudging club finds a manager, especially ones who have money.

So you don't remember the debacle of when we went through about ten different managers before finally having to settle on Nuno?

Your argument is all we have to do is throw money at a manager and he will come if at a smaller club and not on a huge salary. Well we was in for Slot at the almighty Feyenoord and he didn't want to come. The coaches with huge potential know if they keep doing what they are doing a better offer than working with Levy will come along. Some will be tempted by us, others not - but like it or not we are hardly an irresistible proposition for various reasons as it stands....

 

[Surfless]

I just don't really understand a pro Ange argument. We've literally had 3 good performances in 18 months, and everything else has been decline. It's like saying - Harold Shipman, oh year he did give me paracetamol for a migraine once, so he did show potential with that whole doctoring thing.

colourful commentary aside (you've been really funny lately GB - hats off to you) you are downplaying his impact. There were more than 3 good performances in the first ten games.

This season and the away form in general have been shoddy, and there's a lot of questions, but you need to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[Muttley]

It's interesting, as time moves on the Ange debate is becoming even more polarised.

On one extreme you have the ABA'ers - Anything But Ange. This group will find every reason possible to absolve Ange from the problem. Seems the ABA'ers are perhaps on Lange's case as a different place to channel energies. I'm even hearing "we're not playing Ange ball anymore. It can't be that"

On the other side we have the Ange out phalanx who just believe that everything negative at our club is down to him personally. He is the antichrist of THFC and has been sent in to fudge us up. He deliberately does the opposite of what he should be doing.

Sometimes it feels like anything you write will be attacked by one of the 2 groups. lol - you can't win.

See this is my problem. I'm mildly on the Ange out side. However, it is not a normal distribution curve. Those of us somewhere near the middle seem to be the minority. So whatever comment I make, people want it to fit it to the extremist argument.

Take the Reggie vs Sarr topic. I genuinely believe that Ange got this wrong. However, I totally get that Ange only had one of these choices he could get wrong. I'm sure he would have loved 5 or 6 of these close calls and have all those players available.

Another example. I'm now hearing people say "this isn't Ange ball" because of the injury list. Then why is my match commentary showing me stills of the second goal with the nearest person on the pitch to the Leicester midfield being the referee? Our 3 midfielders were on some sort of kamikaze high press Ange ball thing. Ange ball cost us 2 points in my mind.

Now if I could see some of these subtle things be corrected by the guy earning the big bucks then I could get back in his camp. Even though I respect his dilemma, I'm finding it hard to back him.

 

[Muttley]

I just don't really understand a pro Ange argument. We've literally had 3 good performances in 18 months, and everything else has been decline. It's like saying - Harold Shipman, oh year he did give me paracetamol for a migraine once, so he did show potential with that whole doctoring thing.

But why would an Ange-outer understand an ABA'er? That was sort of my point.

 

[Mikey10]

There were more than 3 good performances in the first ten games.

That was FIFTEEN months ago.

 

[Surfless]

So you don't remember the debacle of when we went through about ten different managers before finally having to settle on Nuno?

Your argument is all we have to do is throw money at a manager and he will come if at a smaller club and not on a huge salary. Well we was in for Slot at the almighty Feyenoord and he didn't want to come. The coaches with huge potential know if they keep doing what they are doing a better offer than working with Levy will come along. Some will be tempted by us, others not - but like it or not we are hardly an irresistible proposition for various reasons as it stands....

this is a big reason I'm pro Ange still. I am off the belief he can turn things around and I do think his team can obliterate anyone on their day - they just need to get better at finding that day.

What I am more preoccupied with though is that if he goes the alternatives are literally worse. We don't want Mason, we haven't got anyone in the backroom who can do the job without being part of the problem currently - but beyond that who the hell is going to want to come here? We don't have the pedigree of a Man Utd sadly, and we also don't have the spending power (for whatever reason) of a Emirates Marketing Project, Chelsea, Saudi Sportswashing Machine or Liverpool. We won't get anyone associated with the goons (we tried that with George Graham, and that was never ever ever going to work) so we're shopping in the up and coming pool.

That means its De Zerbi, Silva, Nipple bloke at Bournemouth, and Thomas Frank if we stay domestic, and I wonder if any of them will even allow us to talk to their manager while we're below them in the league.

Overseas, well its a risk whoever you bring in - they could be anyone from Gross to Guardiola.

Ange needs to adapt and quick, but I prefer him to any of the above (bar Guardiola).

 

[Surfless]

That was FIFTEEN months ago.

yes and if you read what GB wrote he said 3 good games in 18 months. So you've confirmed my point.

 

[Mikey10]

yes and if you read what GB wrote he said 3 good games in 18 months. So you've confirmed my point.

I don’t follow…but that’s probably me.

 

[Raziel]

So you don't remember the debacle of when we went through about ten different managers before finally having to settle on Nuno?

Your argument is all we have to do is throw money at a manager and he will come if at a smaller club and not on a huge salary. Well we was in for Slot at the almighty Feyenoord and he didn't want to come. The coaches with huge potential know if they keep doing what they are doing a better offer than working with Levy will come along. Some will be tempted by us, others not - but like it or not we are hardly an irresistible proposition for various reasons as it stands....

My argument is there is a very big difference between, we may not attract the best manager and we can't attract any manager. Very similar to did the club give Ange a squad that could make top 4, is very different from did the club give him a squad that can make top 10.

And again, this exactly is fudging Munn's job, he's paid to ensure we have a contingency plan and if needed can pull the trigger on that replacement.

 

[SpurMeUp]

I wanted to like your post because I agree with a lot of it. But I can’t agree with the bolded part. All out attack, although gets you goals is not a winning strategy, he’s no great tactical innovator. Pressing high to cause turnovers near the opposition goal was not invented by Ange. Poch did it, Pep does it (albeit with better players) and Iraola is doing it to great effect with Bournemouth. What Ange singular fails to do is to stop the goals going in at the other end when we lose possession. Our shape is so chaotic that other teams create good chances against us every game even poor teams. It’s amazing when you look at our results against the teams around us in the bottom to see how many of them were struggling for a result when we played them. Ipswich, Palace (when we had pretty much full strength teams) Everton and now Leicester. They all get a lift from playing Spurs. Other than Soton we must be the team that other teams look forward to playing. And I’m afraid that’s on Ange’s and his system.

Clearly it’s not working now. I don’t think anyone could argue otherwise.

But you have Emirates Marketing Project who have played similar football show that it can be hugely successful. And Postecoglou himself had a successful career and worked his way up on merit alone, using this system.

I think the analogy of a striped out Colin Chapman racing car is apt. Lotus were famous for saving weight from their cars. Anything that could be striped out was - and their cars broke a lot. They weren’t safe. But in time it paid off and they started to win. Postecoglou’s setup doesn’t have a fall back. We can’t give up possession whilst committing so many players forward. We break easily atm. But get it right, and we’ll win games. I don’t think Ange will have the time or players to implement his vision. And the lack of confidence in him from fans is terminal.

 

[thfcsteff]

Coming out to confront a fan yesterday who had said something harmless was not a good look though.

Agreed. A man most certainly on the edge...hate to see him get pushed over it whilst judgement on his 'lack of control' rains down from everyone.

 

[Surfless]

I don’t follow…but that’s probably me.

not at all - GB Said we've had 3 good games in 18 months. I just wanted to stress that while its been terrible for a while, there were 10 games at the beginning which were not bad at all, hence the stat he stated was off a bit.

 

[Surfless]

Clearly it’s not working now. I don’t think anyone could argue otherwise.

But you have Emirates Marketing Project who have played similar football show that it can be hugely successful. And Postecoglou himself had a successful career and worked his way up on merit alone, using this system.

I think the analogy of a striped out Colin Chapman racing car is apt. Lotus were famous for saving weight from their cars. Anything that could be striped out was - and their cars broke a lot. They weren’t safe. But in time it paid off and they started to win. Postecoglou’s setup doesn’t have a fall back. We can’t give up possession whilst committing so many players forward. We break easily atm. But get it right, and we’ll win games. I don’t think Ange will have the time or players to implement his vision. And the lack of confidence in him from fans is terminal.

nice analogy - we're the Lotus of the footballing world.

Cheap, lightweight and with mirrors off a Vauxhall Cavalier.

 

[Muttley]

Agreed. A man most certainly on the edge...hate to see him get pushed over it whilst judgement on his 'lack of control' rains down from everyone.

You have to ask yourself whether there is brain/mental fog involved with Ange at this point. It's stops you highly functioning, something that he is clearly used to doing. Also, if you are used to resigning or running your contract down and moving on, this position he finds himself now will be very alien. He can create narratives, but it must be dragging him down personally.

 

[DubSpur]

Going by not much. I think Madders has post faith

What I'm seeing from Madders is no different from throughout his career, on his day is great but not so much when a team is under the cosh.

 

[Muttley]

What I'm seeing from Madders is no different from throughout his career, on his day is great but not so much when a team is under the cosh.

And he seems have a body composition with more glass in it as he's aged.

 

[Raziel]

What I'm seeing from Madders is no different from throughout his career, on his day is great but not so much when a team is under the cosh.

Unfair, the back-end of that disaster season where Leicester got relegated he almost saved them, 10 goals + 9 assists in the league in an utter disaster of a team/run.

 

[thfcsteff]

You have to ask yourself whether there is brain/mental fog involved with Ange at this point. It's stops you highly functioning, something that he is clearly used to doing. Also, if you are used to resigning or running your contract down and moving on, this position he finds himself now will be very alien. He can create narratives, but it must be dragging him down personally.

I said precisely this elsewhere. So yes, I agree.