Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)

[SkipRat]

Investment in students clearly isn't to stimulate the economy now. That's one of the mid-term bets. We can only measure that impact down the line. I think the problem was the dependents that we ended up supporting with the students, especially the post graduate bunch. Didn't we implement a new policy to control that piece?

As for Hinkley C, I agree. We've basically sold our soul to the French and seen all the investment support another country's economy. We need to stop doing that. As you say, it will be a multi-pronged approach to enhancing energy across nuclear, solar, wind etc. I think I have more confidence in us improving energy options as a country by 2030 than I do other things like health, crime and even education.

But it's not investment though. It's foreign families coming to the UK and spending their money in the local economy, as the stay with the children who are studying, or that was the idea of it, but it might have been the case we ended up supporting them... Either way, they decided that almost an extra million migrants a year was a good idea.

Once again, lazy government, using migrants to solve the countries problems, whilst protecting the financial interests of their mates.

I think they did, but it was too little too late and they got obliterated for it.

Edit: As for the energy bit, I don't know. I would have had more hope if Labour had actually renationalised the energy market. Doing something to make it completely untenable for investors, forcing them to sell and collapsing the energy companies and then have the government get them back on the cheap.

Then we won't have this scam where electricity is linked to the price of gas, and the energy companies making billions in extra profit, for them and their families, as the rest of us freeze over winter.

We can then build new modern green energy production facilities using allsorts of technology (out tax payers money), with only maintenance and cost of running to cover these facilities. As the public have already paid for the new facilities (through tax), the cost of building these facilities won't be included in bills. Then business and the public enjoy unlimited green energy, and we all move over to electric central heating etc etc.

What labour have done, has pandered to the "market", this new British Energy company or whatever they are planning is testament to this, it's not addressing the issue and what really needs to happen.

 

[Batspur]

But it's not investment though. It's foreign families coming to the UK and spending their money in the local economy, as the stay with the children who are studying.

Once again, lazy government, using migrants to solve the countries problems, whilst protecting the financial interests of their mates.

Hence why to Tories let so many in, but as I say I can;t remember the figures.

Edit: As for the energy bit, I don;t know. I would have had more hope if Labour had actually renationalised the energy market. Doing something to make it completely untenable for investors, forcing them to sell and collapsing the energy companies and then have the government get them back on the cheap.

The we have this scam where electricity is linked to the price of gas. Then build new modern energy production facilities, with only maintenance and cost of running to cover these facilities. As the public have already paid for the new facilities, the cost won be including in bills... Well, that is the general gist of it.

What labour have done, has pandered to the "market", this new British Energy company or whatever they are planning is testament to this.

7.4m people came in under the Tories from 2010 to 2021. The most in a decade in history. This doesn't include the approx 2m+ from 2021 to present.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06077/

The big difference is the religion. The new immigrants are majority Muslim as opposed to the previous decade who were largely Christian. This is a fundamental issue imo. It's the same across Europe too. But they have even more problems with the change in their society so quickly. It's why the hard right are now the dominant parties in a lot of the countries. It's not rocket science.

Edit. Lol @ the word replacement

 

[Grays_1890]

This is one of their slogans. 'Work with us to bring about a world in which everyone is free to move, and no one is forced to move.' Are you in that camp? Come one come all? Hearing anecdotal evidence of a migrant/immigrant doing a good job does not mean all the people arriving are doctors and engineers. Quite the opposite. The vast majority of students are working in the gig economy adding very little to the economy. The asylum seekers and illegals are costing us billions a year and will do for years as they are processed. Why is it that they throw their documents, passports into the sea if they are genuine? We do not have the infrastructure for our own people let alone building a new Birmingham every year. Cambridgeshire is being turned into a building site for houses with zero new doctors let alone hospitals. If you're lucky you might get a Tesco Express on your estate. I'm left wing but I am sick of going to work to pay taxes to feed and house illegals when I am having to struggle at home. It's ridiculous.

I have never seen that statement, can you point me too it?

For the record I believe people that come here to work deserve the same respect as anyone else in this country, the 7m here working and contributing are not the burden you make out them to be as you are conflating illegals with legal immigrants who are here to work. I think people here to work should be afforded the same respect and rights as the 6m Brits who live and work abroad in other countries doing the exact same thing

And its not anecdotal, they make up a third of our workforce here in the UK, the majority of which work in the professions I have stated, so again I will ask the question, how do you change that when there are only 1.5m unemployed Brits?

I agree that illegal immigration is a problem and a strain, but they are too totally different conversations

 

[SkipRat]

7.4m people came in under the Tories from 2010 to 2021. The most in a decade in history. This doesn't include the approx 2m+ from 2021 to present.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06077/

The big difference is the religion. The new immigrants are majority *bacon dodger* as opposed to the previous decade who were largely Christian. This is a fundamental issue imo. It's the same across Europe too. But they have even more problems with the change in their society so quickly. It's why the hard right are now the dominant parties in a lot of the countries. It's not rocket science.

Yup.

Still, the real problem is numbers in regards to all the other points I have man.

Was it Soros that said the EU needs a million migrants a year?

 

[Batspur]

I have never seen that statement, can you point me too it?

For the record I believe people that come here to work deserve the same respect as anyone else in this country, the 7m here working and contributing are not the burden you make out them to be as you are conflating illegals with legal immigrants who are here to work. I think people here to work should be afforded the same respect and rights as the 6m Brits who live and work abroad in other countries doing the exact same thing

And its not anecdotal, they make up a third of our workforce here in the UK, the majority of which work in the professions I have stated, so again I will ask the question, how do you change that when there are only 1.5m unemployed Brits?

I agree that illegal immigration is a problem and a strain, but they are too totally different conversations

It's a common used statement by people when they are defending immigration. They use a single case they have come across and extrapolate it over every migrant/immigrant.

I'm not sure where you are getting your figures from? You sure they are making up a third of our workforce? What do you think the population of migrants is in this country? Here's an actual fact for you.

Employment and employee types - Office for National Statistics

Employment rates show the number of people in paid work as a proportion of the population, broken down by age and sex. Includes information on the number of people in employment and vacancies.

www.ons.gov.uk

Its says of 16 to 64 people in this country 75% were in employment. That would mean the migrant/immigrant population in this country is way higher than actual the stats.

Edit. Thats June to August 2024.

 

[SkipRat]

I have never seen that statement, can you point me too it?

For the record I believe people that come here to work deserve the same respect as anyone else in this country, the 7m here working and contributing are not the burden you make out them to be as you are conflating illegals with legal immigrants who are here to work.

And its not anecdotal, they make up a third of our workforce here in the UK, the majority of which work in the professions I have stated, so again I will ask the question, how do you change that when there are only 1.5m unemployed Brits?

I agree that illegal immigration is a problem and a strain, but they are too totally different conversations

It's numbers for the reasons I have provided earlier. Like food, Energy, where are we going to build houses? We only have Forests, flood planes, and farmland left. Brown fill sites are usually more diverse and species rich, as they have been left alone and nature does it's thing. Like the former gas facilities at the new London Gateway Port. Yes, i worked their as one of ecologist on the translocation project.

Once again, you ignore the influence skewed figures that the billionaires produce from their immense wealth.

You also highlight the problem with being in the EU, was that it massively unbalanced the economy, as we moved away from a mix of manufacturing/service to a heavily based service only economy, that only benefitted the financial centres and left the rest of country to rot.

We have system of based on unlimited growth, in a world with finite resources, with growing competition with the likes China and other emerging economies and the cracks are starting show. It's completely unsustainable.

The UK population needs a controlled fall, to sustainable population levels, it's the horrible true that no one wants to deal with it.

 

[Batspur]

Yup.

Still, the real problem is numbers in regards to all the other points I have man.

Was it Soros that said the EU needs a million migrants a year?

I wouldn't expect anything else from the Davos crew.

Most recently one of ursula von der leyen's maiden speeches said something along similar lines. You only have to see Lampedusa to see the island is teeming with doctors and engineers.

 

[Batspur]

It's numbers for the reasons I have provided earlier. Like food, Energy, where are we going to build houses? We only have Forests, flood planes, and farmland left. Brown fill sites are usually more diverse and species rich, as they have been left alone and nature does it's thing. Like the former gas facilities at the new London Gateway Port. Yes, i worked their as one of ecologist on the translocation project.

Once again, you ignore the influence skewed figures that the billionaires produce from their immense wealth.

You also highlight the problem with being in the EU, was that it massively unbalanced the economy, as we moved away from a mix of manufacturing/service to a heavily based service only economy, that only benefitted the financial centres and left the rest of country to rot.

We have system of based on unlimited growth, in a world with finite resources, with growing competition with the likes China and other emerging economies and the cracks are starting show. It's completely unsustainable.

The UK population needs a controlled fall, to sustainable population levels, it's the horrible true that no one wants to deal with it.

This is so true. I'm not sure when the penny will drop that Earths recourses are finite and the clamour to grow your economy year on year by 5 to 7% is simply not sustainable.

 

[SkipRat]

What? Even Republicans are saying Trump is a fascist. You are a bit deluded my friend. Isn't he extreme enough for you?

Then how sh*t to do you have to be to lose to a fascist donkey ass tongue punching sp*nk monkey?

Trump will win, because of the culture was over that labelled vast swathes of the country racist for just being white. And not cracking down on the like of BLM who are communist movement, hiding behind the deaths of unarmed black people to promote their communist ideology, so when people criticise them, they can call them racist and that are are the problem. AS they were given millions of Dollars they they kept for themselves rather than the projects they were promoting.

BLM’s millions unaccounted for after leaders quietly jumped ship - Washington Examiner

No one appears to have been in charge at Black Lives Matter for months. The address it lists on tax forms is wrong, and the charity's two board members won't say who controls its $60 million bankroll, a Washington Examiner investigation has found. BLM's shocking lack of transparency surrounding...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/09/04/us/black-lives-matter-executive-lawsuit/index.html

Think this is is tin foil hat nut job theory? Well here is video footage of one of the founders/leaders of BLM explaining that she is a pupil of marxism, with their tenants of defund the police, break up of the nuclear family etc, on their website, of course all communist tenants.

Time stamped the video for ease... And no, I don;t follow Gothix, I think she is an anti-vaxor whom I hate with a passion, but she highlights BLM's marxist/communist roots and what they are promoting.

And Yes, I hate BLM, and yes I think that the solution is for America to improve the quality of it's police all it's citizens and just no because of one demographic.

Where was Tony Timpa's global protests when he was left to die, face down in dirt, and police laughing at him, a man who phoned the police as he took drugs and was on parole or something, so being honest and wanted help? He was unarmed... But because he was white, meh, who cares.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

Then how sh*t to do you have to be to lose to a fascist donkey ass tongue punching sp*nk monkey?

Trump will win, because of the culture was over that labelled vast swathes of the country racist for just being white. And not cracking down on the like of BLM who are communist movement, hiding behind the deaths of unarmed black people to promote their communist ideology, so when people criticise them, they can call them racist and that are are the problem. AS they were given millions of Dollars they they kept for themselves rather than the projects they were promoting.

BLM’s millions unaccounted for after leaders quietly jumped ship - Washington Examiner

No one appears to have been in charge at Black Lives Matter for months. The address it lists on tax forms is wrong, and the charity's two board members won't say who controls its $60 million bankroll, a Washington Examiner investigation has found. BLM's shocking lack of transparency surrounding...

www.washingtonexaminer.com

https://edition.cnn.com/2022/09/04/us/black-lives-matter-executive-lawsuit/index.html

Think this is is tin foil hat nut job theory? Well here is video footage of one of the founders/leaders of BLM explaining that she is a pupil of marxism, with their tenants of defund the police, break up of the nuclear family etc, on their website, of course all communist tenants.

Time stamped the video for ease... And no, I don;t follow Gothix, I think she is an anti-vaxor whom I hate with a passion, but she highlights BLM's marxist/communist roots and what they are promoting.

And Yes, I hate BLM, and yes I think that the solution is for America to improve the quality of it's police all it's citizens and just no because of one demographic.

Where was Tony Timpa's global protests when he was left to die, face down in dirt, and police laughing at him, a man who phoned the police as he took drugs and was on parole or something, so being honest and wanted help? He was unarmed... But because he was white, meh, who cares.

Give them eneough rope and the right wing nut jobbery just spills out. They cannot contain themselves.

 

[SkipRat]

Give them eneough rope and the right wing nut jobbery just spills out. They cannot contain themselves.

It's funny watching people cry people cry right wing at everything. Because they don't know how to deal with uncomfortable truths.

Especially when defending disgusting acts like hiding behind the deaths of people to push a communist agenda, as BLM did.

Then call people far right want wanting the police service in the US to be better for everyone regardless of colour, sex, or sexual orientation.

Those fecking Nazi's wanting to treat people equally, evil scum, how dare they.



And you wonder why trump is more than likely going to win, if you are an example the quality of debate the left is providing.

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

It's funny watching people cry people cry right wing at everything. Because they don't know how to deal with uncomfortable truths.

Especially when defending disgusting acts like hiding behind the deaths of people to push a communist agenda, as BLM did.

Then call people far right want wanting the police service in the US to be better for everyone regardless of colour, sex, or sexual orientation.

Those fecking Nazi's wanting to treat people equally, evil scum, how dare they.



And you wonder why trump is more than likely going to win, if you are an example the quality of debate the left is providing.

Where is your evidence of a 'communist agenda'? One right wing nut makes this claim and all the others pile in. As far as I can see, the BLM was simply a response to so many people of colour being killed in police custody. What Marxism has to do with that is anyone's guess. Probably a claim made by the same people who believe that Nancy Pelosi is a communist. BTW, have you ever read any Marx? Until you do, best not to link this ideology to every other social movement occurring in the 21st century.

 

[SkipRat]

Where is your evidence of a 'communist agenda'? One right wing nut makes this claim and all the others pile in. As far as I can see, the BLM was simply a response to so many people of colour being killed in police custody. What Marxism has to do with that is anyone's guess. Probably a claim made by the same people who believe that Nancy Pelosi is a communist. BTW, have you ever read any Marx? Until you do, best not to link this ideology to every other social movement occurring in the 21st century.

just leaders admittng they are Marxists, and that BLM's website is full of communist ideology.

But of course, no evidence right?

If you agree with us that that these killings are bad, we suggest these ideas to solve the issue... Insert communist ideology

The video also shows the BLM website and what it says....

But no evidence...

 

[Gilzeantoscore]

So it calls for the establishment of a communist vanguard party to establish the dictatorship of the proletariat? I doubt there is much Leninism in the BLM? But of course you are referring to so called 'cultural Marxism', which in fact, has very little to do with real Marxism. Back in the day, it was called social engineering and was never the sole preserve of the left. The right were, and still are, masters of that..

 

[markysimmo]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849752074545758703

 

[SkipRat]

So it calls for the establishment of a communist vanguard party to establish the dictatorship of the proletariat? I doubt there is much Leninism in the BLM? But of course you are referring to so called 'cultural Marxism', which in fact, has very little to do with real Marxism. Back in the day, it was called social engineering and was never the sole preserve of the left. The right were, and still are, masters of that..

They are certainly calling for and promoting aspects of communist ideology and we certainly know they are trained marxists. They stated that themselves.

Those aspects, very worrying in themselves, like breaking down the nuclear family.

Not to mention the missing donation money in the millions.

 

[Mikey10]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1849752074545758703

‘Left-wing extremist.’ Actually made me laugh out loud. Presume this is some kind of parody account?

 

[thfcsteff]

7.4m people came in under the Tories from 2010 to 2021. The most in a decade in history. This doesn't include the approx 2m+ from 2021 to present.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn06077/

The big difference is the religion. The new immigrants are majority *bacon dodger* as opposed to the previous decade who were largely Christian. This is a fundamental issue imo. It's the same across Europe too. But they have even more problems with the change in their society so quickly. It's why the hard right are now the dominant parties in a lot of the countries. It's not rocket science.

Edit. Lol @ the word replacement

It's the polarisation effect.
Most Muslims are NOT extremists, they are simply trying to get on with their day.
Most Christians are not facists.
That is a fact, yet it is not allowed right now.
Add poverty, fear and unfiltered, un-contextualized information and...well, we've seen this playbook before time and time again.

 

[thfcsteff]

This is so true. I'm not sure when the penny will drop that Earths recourses are finite and the clamour to grow your economy year on year by 5 to 7% is simply not sustainable.

Again, I am in agreement with this statement but think the focus has to be in multiple directions and address multiple issues i.e. corporate (and to an extent societal) greed.

 

[thfcsteff]

I just wanted to say that personally, given where this thread was a few weeks ago, I think we have done a 180. I am delighted that there has been -and can be- such an exchange of opinions and some good discussions about them. Personally, I feel fortified in my deep hope/belief(?) that MOST people want the same things (a fairer society for all, greater attention to the environment) and that if conversational ground can feel 'safe' then perhaps society as a whole can beat the polarization tactics going down everywhere and find a middle path which gets us there...remember, I am the person who starts every season thinking 'this is our year' but seriously, I'll take any 'plus' signs, and for me, the recent debates, discussions and even disagreements have been positive in nature...