Here HereI just wanted to say that personally, given where this thread was a few weeks ago, I think we have done a 180. I am delighted that there has been -and can be- such an exchange of opinions and some good discussions about them. Personally, I feel fortified in my deep hope/belief(?) that MOST people want the same things (a fairer society for all, greater attention to the environment) and that if conversational ground can feel 'safe' then perhaps society as a whole can beat the polarization tactics going down everywhere and find a middle path which gets us there...remember, I am the person who starts every season thinking 'this is our year'but seriously, I'll take any 'plus' signs, and for me, the recent debates, discussions and even disagreements have been positive in nature...
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Politics, politics, politics (so long and thanks for all the fish)
- Thread starter SpurMeUp
- Start date
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
History repeats mate, my grandparents came from Poland and Germany respectively as Jews, the NF and far right types hated them the same as they hate Muslims now, especially the orthodox immigrants, my Grandad told me often of times he was spat on in the street by those types in the East End.........look different, eat different, pray different and people see that as a threat, reality is there is little threat that doesn't exist with any religion.
The whole acceptance of "bacon dodger" on here also rings harder for me because it was a quip that was reserved for Jews not so long ago, now some jokers on here think its ok that its applied to mus1ims. You can't do anything but roll your eyes with it.
Ironically the far right want to be mates with the Jews now because they hate the Muslims, so we have an easier ride than we had, but its easy to see through, we don't want or need the Tommy Robinsons of the world on our side, he can go to hell.
As you say, playbooks repeating with lazy broad strokes by small minded idiots
The shame of it is that people just keep making excuses for the ridiculous reactions and actions of bigotry in this country "ohhh but no one is listening" "its gone to far here, whens it gonna stop" as an excuse for mindless act of hate a violence. People being attacked but yet being blamed for being attacked for basically just having the brass to live here as a normal human being, its the whole "well she would insist on wearing a skirt" defence.
This sort of brick just makes you sad, its shameful and sad www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/cj3m1y5re6do
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I find it hilarious the right wing media has now decided taking a donation is now the worst thing in the world.
Johnson had his food paid for in Downing Street. Up to 30k month. Had his wedding paid for. Kids toys bought for him. Went to the wedding of a KGB spy's son in Italy as Foreign Secretary ( but in a personal capacity lol.. ) immediately after a sensitive and secret EU meeting about Russia, gave his security detail the slip so we have no idea what he did... And when I say immediate I mean he flew from Brussels straight to the KGB'S party in Italy. Spent 200k on wall paper for his tarts boudoir. I could go on and on. Sunak having his actual government, his official government trips paid for by a business man so he could fly in a helicopter despite him being one of the richest people in the world.
But...but...since 2019 Kier Starmer has accepted 5k worth of donations and he is a threat to national security.. What a load of gonads.
I agree.
If I had the power I would like to raise billions of people out of poverty world wide. But we can't use the system we use, a debt based consumer society, as billions of people with lots of money suddenly wanting consumption with just obliterate the Earths natural resources, and as of 10 -15 years ago (Horizon - How many people can Earth Support with David Attenborough) humans were consuming 1.5 Earths of natural resources if we kept the distribution of wealth the same.
Today it is even worse and global environment is just in free fall and that is without climate change full kicking in.
I believe that we the British need to reduce our polulation in the long term to more manageable sustainable levels and eleviate our pressure on other countries, as when climate change kicks in devastating crop yeilds in the future, I don't want us to be in situation where we can't feed ourselves, or to keep us feed means living millions to die by people who have no access to food grown in their own countries.
And it's not just the UK that needs to manage it's a global thing and I can't think of anything better than the USA closing it's boaders. The average American consume 5-10 times the amount of natural resources the average Bangldeshi does. If everyone had their fair shair of geohectres, every person would get 2. The reality is, the average American gets 9, Uk around 4-5, same as the EU, China was about 2 10-15 years ago, the average Bangladeshi got 1.5-.1.8.
We have got to something, yes, greed needs to be addressed, so does immigration, pension, housing, wealth distribution, energy creation... It's all equally as important.
Islam has no place in a modern western secular society. The more we import their values the more we degrade our own culture which has nothing to do with such a backward philosophy.
We respect women. Islam is a cancer. It is a medieval belief system that offers nothing to the modern world.
Theologically speaking it is 5 to 600 years behind Christianity. It has never had it's Diet of Worms moment.
Diet of Worms (1495) - Wikipedia
Until it does it can not be accepted in a modern western society. It's literally an anathema to our Christian/ western belief system. A vile religion that worships its version of Jesus marrying a 9 year old girl and consummating their relationship. Even the most 'moderate' muslim places Allah above everything. Sorry to be so crude but I don't always think that most folks actually know how backward Islam is.
Happy to be proved wrong.
Says the liar who threw his teddies bear out the pram, called me a lying racist c*nt and that I was wrong, despite me warning him several times that I wasn't.
Only it turns out that I was factually correct.
And posts about a guy who stabbed an asylum seeker, who by the way is scumbag and deserves to go to prison, also cries like a baby and calls you a rascist bigot, when you point out that across Europe, many studies have shown that migrants are 4x more likely to commit crime than locals, including violent crime and sexual assaults.
And once again, it the government had done their job prooperly and not let in 150,000 vaste majority non-refugees, just economic migrants mainly lying to get in...
Then maybe tension would not have got so high in the first place, and this scumbag might not have stabbed anyone.
I hope the guy gets what he deserves.
I'm not she he did consummate the marriage when she was 9, as the way the Quran is written it's time line is all over the place.Islam has no place in a modern western secular society. The more we import their values the more we degrade our own culture which has nothing to do with such a backward philosophy.
We respect women. Islam is a cancer. It is a medieval belief system that offers nothing to the modern world.
Theologically speaking it is 5 to 600 years behind Christianity. It has never had it's Diet of Worms moment.
Diet of Worms (1495) - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Until it does it can not be accepted in a modern western society. It's literally an anathema to our Christian/ western belief system. A vile religion that worships its version of Jesus marrying a 9 year old girl and consummating their relationship. Even the most 'moderate' *bacon dodger* places Allah above everything. Sorry to be so crude but I don't always think that most folks actually know how backward Islam is.
Happy to be proved wrong.
Still it is a brutal and backwards religion that has no place in the modern, I think no religion has a place in a modern world really, but especially Islam.
But if people want to worship the religion than can do it in Islamic countries.
Any religion/culture that treats women like 2nd class citizens, denies them education, and many basic rights has no place in the UK. And no, no all Muslims adhere to strict Islamic laws in the UK, but when 30%-40% of British Muslims want Sharia Law... Raises some serious questions that need to be answered.
Islam such a peaceful religion.
An no, it's not just Iran.
And no... Foreign Policy is not culture, as foreign policy can change for election to election
And before anyone asks.
I support the innocent victims on both sides in Isreal and Palestine. Netanyahu and HAMAS are vile horrible c**ts in equal meassure, Iran and Russia are C**ts for supporting HAMAS, UK and USA are c**ts for not coming down on Israel over the last 60 for all the shyte they have done, like illegal land grabs, the murder of Rabbin in 1995, the way they have treated Palestinians since 1948, then allowed Israel hide behind the events of the WW2 to justify them being complete and utter c*nts. "look what happened us in WW2" as they break more UN resolutions than any other country on Earth.
F*ck Netanyahu and his supporters
F*ck HAMAS and their supporters
F*ck Iran & Russia
F*ck the UK and USA
I stand with the innocent people on both sides.
And no, I don't hate the people, I just hate the religion that is barbiric.
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I should have added the caveat that all religions are backwards imo.
Some have just moved on to adapt to the modern world better. But far right Christianity is also a cancer.
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
Not one lie on here about anything, I posted a part of a report and explained the other parts about why migrant women are more likely to be unemployed because of cultural differences and more likely home makers (backed up by the same report). The same report that contains more things that back up my claims such as migrants being less likely to claim off the state which I also left out, so it was not selective or lies as you put it.
Your recent posts prove my points and my feelings about the type of person you are, its extremes to the max and its hateful, I don't have to say anymore because I know the people who post on here and I know they have a keener level of judgement on these matters.
You carry on screaming into wilderness with your extreme generalisations where you can't even be bothered to separate the fact from fiction and taking broad strokes against people you clearly don't like. Your rantings about Mus1ims and Islam is just ridiculously biased and extreme to a fault
There are enough good balanced people in the world and some really decent people on here not to have to listen to your flimflam.
I apologised to the board because I respect a number of posters on here, I don't respect you, so to answer an earlier post, I won't apologise to you.
You crack on, I won't engage with you anymore on this board and life will be better for it
Oh really....
You just posted half a headline.... Ignoring the fact that as I said migrants were more likely to be unemployed as a % and the fact that white British males would have a lower % as many would be in further education like university or retraining.
Where as you posted half an image with zero context to make it look like white men are lazy and migrants harder working.
And did you do that that research into the point you made about my stats that I posted?
No, of course you didn't, because you debate like a three year old, who resorts to lying and misleading.
And the fact you wont apologise says everything about you as a person.
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The most hated family in America. Absolutely disgusting, not to mention the way in that christian conservatives in America treat gays and trans.
Religion is one of the single biggest causes of cr*p in the world. Mainly because it was written at time when we were trying to understand the world around us, but didn't have access to the the technology we have to day, so they explained it away using gods and their powers.
I think it is important to understand religious history and how it played shapping the world, like in Britian haow Christianity shaped this country.
But as whole, religion...
thfcsteff
George Hunt
...and meanwhile, in America...:-(
Robspur12
Nick Barmby
You know, if it wasn't religion, human beings would just find something else to sow division and hatred. Just look at Football fans in that respect. It's what many humans do.
I know a little bit about Islam the religion but certainly not enough to consider myself a scholar of it (as I suspect neither are some of the posters on here) . Like in every religion, cultural beliefs and practices get interwoven with religious ones, such that it often becomes difficult to separate them.
But I can tell a story of kindness. I was part of a response to a gas explosion on a residential street in London. The entire street had been evacuated quickly; so the residents couldn't even take any everyday possessions. They were put up in temporary accommodation. Every single day the local mosque cooked and sent hot food not only for the displaced residents but for the emergency responders and council workers to the local community centre so the residents had a free meal. They gave everyday supplies. They sent the imam to pray with some of the families. I remember thinking to myself, this is the side of Islam the haters don't see. The compassionate and charitable.
I am not a mu slim. But there are so many things to admire about the religion and the community. There are definitely trouble makers, given that there are a billion adherents, there's bound to be. But every community also has kind, and decent members too. I like to focus on those rather than the bad ones.
I know a little bit about Islam the religion but certainly not enough to consider myself a scholar of it (as I suspect neither are some of the posters on here) . Like in every religion, cultural beliefs and practices get interwoven with religious ones, such that it often becomes difficult to separate them.
But I can tell a story of kindness. I was part of a response to a gas explosion on a residential street in London. The entire street had been evacuated quickly; so the residents couldn't even take any everyday possessions. They were put up in temporary accommodation. Every single day the local mosque cooked and sent hot food not only for the displaced residents but for the emergency responders and council workers to the local community centre so the residents had a free meal. They gave everyday supplies. They sent the imam to pray with some of the families. I remember thinking to myself, this is the side of Islam the haters don't see. The compassionate and charitable.
I am not a mu slim. But there are so many things to admire about the religion and the community. There are definitely trouble makers, given that there are a billion adherents, there's bound to be. But every community also has kind, and decent members too. I like to focus on those rather than the bad ones.
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thfcsteff
George Hunt
Islam has no place in a modern western secular society. The more we import their values the more we degrade our own culture which has nothing to do with such a backward philosophy.
We respect women. Islam is a cancer. It is a medieval belief system that offers nothing to the modern world.
Theologically speaking it is 5 to 600 years behind Christianity. It has never had it's Diet of Worms moment.
Diet of Worms (1495) - Wikipedia
Until it does it can not be accepted in a modern western society. It's literally an anathema to our Christian/ western belief system. A vile religion that worships its version of Jesus marrying a 9 year old girl and consummating their relationship. Even the most 'moderate' *bacon dodger* places Allah above everything. Sorry to be so crude but I don't always think that most folks actually know how backward Islam is.
Happy to be proved wrong.
Extremes in all faiths have no place in a modern western secular culture.
I wholly disagree that one faith is specifically worse than another.
What I feel you are essentially saying is you do not want any cultures/beliefs in western society that are not 'western.' Which is an opinion.
Sadly, due to the repeated abuse and subjugation of world regions which contain cultures and beliefs that are not 'western secular' (shall we just say 'Christian'?) we have waived our right to the sort of seperatism you appear to believe in.
You cannot colonize/use/abuse countries -regions- and then reasonably expect to reject anyone from them.
You cannot use/abuse people whose faith doesn't match yours when most 'western secular societies' have squeezed these communities -these place- for their resources, support in other matters, or even simply tried to turn them into further consumer markets to buy buy buy.
Even the most moderate Christians believe in GHod (and Jesus) above everything.
I don't find your view necessarily 'crude'...I whole-heartedly and utterly disagree with your implied 'one size fits all' conflation of an entire faith with their unfortunate extremist factions, and find it curious that you don't recognize the enormous rising swell of extremist factions in Christianity who have already actively affected the lives of millions in the US alone with their ancient 'Old Testament-like' beliefs. On that basis alone (there are others) I find your statement about 'backward' uncomfortably selective.
I must also say I don't believe your last sentence. It appears to me that no amount of 'proof' will make a difference to what appears to be a fundamental belief of yours...
thfcsteff
George Hunt
Well said. I am also not a mu-slim, or 'anything' in that regard.
BTW @scaramanga Please switch off the world filter that disgustingly turns mu-slim into 'bacon dodger'. I have no idea how it haappened, but I appeal to you as the person who operates this forum to please change it.
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Grays_1890
Chris Jones
I feel sorry for the next couple of weeks you are going to have to endure mate
It's like anything In life there are extremes. I have an issue with extremism and exploitation in any religion, in that respect all of them without any real exception are as bad as each other but as you say, are we to judge everyone by one set of bad examples.
The rhetoric flying about grooming gangs like its an exclusive pastime of Islam when the Catholic Church undertook the biggest cover up of crime against children the world has known, but in both examples do we judge all believers on the worse case scenario? Course we don't. I dont think all catholics are fidling with children just as a dont believe everyone in islam is in a grooming gang or wants to chuck a plane into a building
There are extreme fundamentalists in all religions and in fact life in general.
The utter tripe posted today about Islam as a generalisation is IMO just an example of small mindedness that seems to be setting up shop on this forum.
On a brighter note I've just come back not long ago from Malaysia, spent 5 days in KL and did all the temples and just really walking the city.....what a place and whay people....some of the warmest abd kindest you will find anywhere on GHod's earth
.....largely Muslims an all you know.....
thfcsteff
George Hunt
Indeed...
I think it's important to have these discussions in the open though. Perhaps there is a way. It will rely on people re-evaluating. I think some of the current opinions being expressed are extremely refelctive of a global trend, and as has been said by some posting, some of that is to do with the perception that their views have not been entertained or heard (quite possibly before they took on more pointed, extreme tones). I think there's a certain truth to that as the polarisation game is sophisticated.
I might, on the other hand, be guilty of gross naivety. At this point in life I'm prepared to keep trying, as the option would be the sort of vehement hatred that leads to poor health and mental trauma. Not an option.
Grays_1890
Chris Jones
I think there is alot of truth in what you say but then I also think we now live in a world where social media, especially platforms like X allow hate to spread and seemingly, anything goes regardless.
People just don't seem to care about balance anymore, it's just "we good, them bad" and unfortunately we know all too well where those kind of beliefs have taken us in history.
Mikey10
Frederic Kanoute
Really? That is absolutely shocking.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Firstly i am sorry for cutting your post down mate but i wanted to agree with the above. I am not a religious person so do not have a problem with any of them really.
When i do hear, see, read anything about the sides some take in any discussion i am reminded off the old saying by the late great Dave Allen.
"Goodnight, thank you, and may your GHod go with you"