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Sick sick world what is wrong with people

monkeybarry said:
He wasn't born evil. He doesn't seem to have experienced any specific childhood trauma to get there. I do think it might be important to understand how & why he got to where he did.
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Wasn't his dad involved in the Rwandan genocide, if he was, he probably hasn't had a normal childhood then
 
monkeybarry said:
That would explain why I hadn't heard it - reputable and fact based reporting Vs ...the other!
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The truth is we have no idea what his father did in his job in Rwanda. But speculating on stuff to create a story to create more anger at asylum seekers is precisely what is being done here. I doubt some people even have the brain cells to realise they are being used to help disseminate hate but hey ho...
 
monkeybarry said:
Circa £50k pa for a prisoner. He'll probably just be on the vulnerable prisoners wing.
Appx £2.5m (based on 50 years and excl inflation)

In general I'm anti death penalty. But there is a very narrow window where the guilt is so definite and crime so evil that it might be right.

That said, someone made a good point - the death penalty is a lot easier sentence than life imprisonment.

I have philosophical questions - what is the point in keeping him in prison for life? What is the purpose of his life now? Prison is for public protection, with the goal of reintegration into society. Well, the public are protected by him being behind bars. But there is no scope for rehabilitation into society.

Perhaps the only hope is that he becomes a better human and helps in prison?
I do wonder if he should be phycologically studied. I'm 50/50 about whether his no remorse comments and court actions have some truth in or are just manipulation.

He wasn't born evil. He doesn't seem to have experienced any specific childhood trauma to get there. I do think it might be important to understand how & why he got to where he did.
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The only question that needs asking is whether it's cheaper to the taxpayer to hang him or house him.

I believe that in the US it's cheaper to house, but that's probably much to do with prisoners working and earning their keep.
 
scaramanga said:
The only question that needs asking is whether it's cheaper to the taxpayer to hang him or house him.

I believe that in the US it's cheaper to house, but that's probably much to do with prisoners working and earning their keep.
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"$23,000 per person in Arkansas to $307,468 in Massachusetts. Spending in Massachusetts was more than double any other state; the median state spent $64,865 per prisoner for the year."
usafacts.org

How much do states spend on prisoners? | USAFacts

Southern states spend the least per inmate and have some of the highest incarceration rates in the nation.
usafacts.org usafacts.org

Not much of a difference at the median level.
And that's without the UK have abhorrent practices like forced labour. Loss of liberty is the punishment, which the secondary element for incarceration behind Protection of the Public, and before rehabilitation (which the UK is very poor at).

Re; this particular person. It is very hard to make any argument In favour of keeping him in prison (obviously except the fact we don't have the death penalty, so it's just theoretical) - what is the purpose of feeding him?

What is the purpose of having prison staff do their duty in relation to him? It's a very odd position, one that seems to have only negative outcomes.
Maybe it's about our humanity holistically. Which is a fair point. But isn't that cancelled out by the experiences the prison officers, medical teams, other inmates etc will have to endure?
I suspect his court outburst re: illness will be a regular occurrence and he'll spend a lot of time in the segregation unit.

My instinct is that he is severely mentally ill and should be treated as such.
I suspect some kind of future hearing on that basis and a move to Rampton or Ashworth.
That said, I've seen those eyes and behaviour on others in high level manipulation.
 
monkeybarry said:
"$23,000 per person in Arkansas to $307,468 in Massachusetts. Spending in Massachusetts was more than double any other state; the median state spent $64,865 per prisoner for the year."
usafacts.org

How much do states spend on prisoners? | USAFacts

Southern states spend the least per inmate and have some of the highest incarceration rates in the nation.
usafacts.org usafacts.org

Not much of a difference at the median level.
And that's without the UK have abhorrent practices like forced labour. Loss of liberty is the punishment, which the secondary element for incarceration behind Protection of the Public, and before rehabilitation (which the UK is very poor at).

Re; this particular person. It is very hard to make any argument In favour of keeping him in prison (obviously except the fact we don't have the death penalty, so it's just theoretical) - what is the purpose of feeding him?

What is the purpose of having prison staff do their duty in relation to him? It's a very odd position, one that seems to have only negative outcomes.
Maybe it's about our humanity holistically. Which is a fair point. But isn't that cancelled out by the experiences the prison officers, medical teams, other inmates etc will have to endure?
I suspect his court outburst re: illness will be a regular occurrence and he'll spend a lot of time in the segregation unit.

My instinct is that he is severely mentally ill and should be treated as such.
I suspect some kind of future hearing on that basis and a move to Rampton or Ashworth.
That said, I've seen those eyes and behaviour on others in high level manipulation.
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Like I said, the only good argument is that it would be cheaper than the alternative.

Best move would probably be to just put him in with the main population of the prison (somewhere in the North West) and the problem would go away reasonably quickly.
 
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scaramanga said:
Definitely don't need an enquiry. Especially not if you're an MP for a constituency with a large Muslim population.
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What difference has that ever made? Genuinely curious as I don't know, but do you have any evidence at all that it's actually ever happened?
 
LutonSpurs said:
What difference has that ever made? Genuinely curious as I don't know, but do you have any evidence at all that it's actually ever happened?
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MPs are fairly gutless and want to hold on to their constituencies.

Those shouting loudest about not wanting an enquiry are in constituencies where many votes (and especially women's postal votes) can swing on the say so of a "community leader"
 
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